Ep. 024: How to Handle Imposter Syndrome with Becky Mollenkamp
Impost Syndrome flat out SUCKS! But since nobody is immune to it, it's better to know why it happens, what's really going on, and how to deal with it.
In this episode I chat with Becky Mollenkamp all about imposter syndrome and how we can prevent it from getting the best of us and stealing our joy.
Becky Mollenkamp is a mindset coach who helps women stop living “shoulds” and start going after what they truly want. She’s the founder of The Gutsy Boss, which includes a low-cost membership for business owners and an 8-week online course for overcoming limiting beliefs. Find her at BeckyMollenkamp.com
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Erika Tebbens: My guest on this episode is my friend and all around badass woman, Becky Mollenkamp. You can find her online at beckymollincamp.com and she also runs a podcast called the Gutsy Boss. So Becky is a mindset coach who helps women stop living sheds and start going after what they truly want.
She's the founder of the Gutsy Boss, which includes a low cost membership for business owners and an eight week online course for overcoming limiting beliefs. And I think that you are going to absolutely love this episode so, so much, and I hope that you get a ton out of it, and without further ado here is the interview.
Hey Becky, thank you for being here on my podcast.
Becky Mollenkamp: Thanks for having me. I'm excited to chat.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. So, uh, I just wanted to share before we dive into all the good mindset stuff that you're going to be talking about today, uh, the funny way that we like met and kind of connected and, and all of that so not too long after I had started my business, I remember I had was like my first opt-in and I had started following you because of your article, about planners, about choosing a planner and I love planners. And so I was like, Oh, this, this Becky chick is really cool. And I started following you. And then my list was so small at the time that I went to check something one day and I could see that you had gotten my freebie.
And I was like, I know I sent you a DM and I was like, hi, this is so awkward and stupid but like, I think it's really cool that you got my freebie and then we, I don't know, we just sort of started chatting and then I was like, uh, and it's, it's kind of perfect that we're talking about imposter syndrome today because now I'm like, oh, you know, she's like, you're super awesome, but I know you're a real human, but at first I had total imposter syndrome that you actually even like knew who I was even, even if it was just a Scotia. So yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp: It's so funny to me because I just think "Why?" But I totally get it because we all have those things with different people that we kind of forget they're just human beings, you know, just like you and I, but yeah, we put people up on a pedestal and you think that somehow they're different and it's like, not at all. Yeah, it's just so funny.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. It, it really is. And I know that you and I have, uh, had three coaching sessions together so far, and I'm super looking forward to our fourth next week. Uh, and I know that so, like I have, I love to do a lot of like personal growth and development on my own, and I go to regular therapy, which I know, like, I'm sure she'll touch on that mindset coaching is different than regular therapy.
But I am amazed like just in the three sessions that I've had with you, the incredible AHAs and breakthroughs and all of that, that have come from it, and I feel like now coaching and life coaching and mindset coaching is more popular and more widely accepted.
But I still think there are a lot of people who don't know what it is or they're still like, oh, like a life coach. Wow, that's all right, that's a little like weird or what the heck is that? So, um, yeah. Why don't you explain a little bit about what you do and like why you do it, how you came to that path.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, and I don't love the words life coach either, even though that's what ultimately I am, that's, you know, the certification is life coach certification, but I really think of it something differently just because I, for me, I specifically work with women in business and I'm not a business coach, but I think of it as a business mindset coach, um, because it's really about helping people, be able to take those next leaps in their business, being able to level up because ultimately with most of my clients, what they start to realize at some point when you're in business long enough or even if you're not in business that long, but you just are plateaued long enough, you've tried all sorts of different marketing techniques and strategies and at some point you have to get honest with yourself and say like, Hmm, the only thing that's consistent here is me.
And you start to begin to realize like, Oh, maybe it's. Me, that's holding myself back, it's not the perfect email opt-in or the perfect email sequence or, you know, Instagram lives; like it's none of those things that are holding me back it's me. And so my work is with helping people examine kind of where it's threefold, it's where you've been.
Where you are now and where you want to go and kind of looking at the, the thread of all of that. So a lot of the work starts with the two recognize patterns, um, that, you know, thought and behavior patterns that are these lifelong patterns, because very often that work alone can be transformative.
Most of us go our whole lives kind of on autopilot and so, that beginning part of the work is just trying to kick off the autopilot instead of just letting life happen to us, starting to understand that we are empowered to create our lives and so by kicking off some of those. Just repetitive patterns that alone can just change everything because then you get out of that place of just being like, well, this is just how I do it, or this is how I show up and saying, wait, what's the choice I want to make now.
And then kind of looking at our value system and what we really value.=; That's kind of that here and now piece and then looking forward and thinking, okay, what are the big goals and what are the roadblocks that keep me from getting there? What kind of strategies can we come up with to deal with those roadblocks as they come up.
So that's kind of the big picture view of what I think I do and probably what really ultimately, most life coaches or whatever term you want to use that's what we're helping people with.
Erika Tebben: I love that. And yeah, and I think, uh, I definitely know and part of why I wanted to work with you is because I knew I was like on some level, there is some part of me that is still stuck on something.
There's still a block somewhere that I haven't figured out, I haven't uncovered. And it's amazing cause I know just like in the very first session I had with you afterwards, I was like, oh my gosh, I had no idea like that was a thing that I was even doing or where it came from or whatever.
So that was, uh, that has been really, really awesome. And, yeah, I think it's just, now that I've experienced it for myself, I'm like, oh my gosh, everyone, everyone needs this help but like.
Becky Mollenkamp: Just so nice. Yeah. And you know, most of my clients, you talked about therapy, I'll just hit on that very quick, quickly that most of my clients, I would say 90% of my clients have done therapy or in therapy and it's very different the work I do.
I actually love working with people who've done therapy or in therapy, because those are the people who are willing to kind of go there that are, who are interested in being introspective and, and want to do the kind of hard work. The difference I see is, and I always sort of explain it like you have a wound.
So like, if you've got a, a gaping wound on your arm, you know, that's, that's bleeding and is everywhere. Like you need therapy, like if the issues that you're thinking about are two hearts, even you can't even touch them. It's just so tender and like raw that's therapy, that's digging in and exploring trauma or, you know, those kinds of deeper wounds and trying to get them to a place of healing.
And so therapy is about taking you from wounded to healing or to heal them, but then where I say coaching picks up is once you've kind of got that scabbed over, right? You may still touch it. It may still be a little tender, but you can touch it. Now you can go there without it being so painful, but maybe there's still some more work you want to do, right?
So then it's about taking you from sort of that healed place to a place of really thriving. So that's kind of that difference in a lot of times, people will be like, I've explored so many of these issues in therapy, but we don't always in therapy talk about how do those same things relate to how we're showing up in other parts of our lives.
Most of the time we're exploring, like, what does this mean for who I am, or maybe my most intimate relationships, but most of the time therapists, and it's not their fault, it's just, they're usually limited on how long we work with a therapist, but they're not going then saying, well, how are these same things affecting you in your business?
And, you know, and in the way you're showing up in the world. So that's also where coaching can be helpful.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, absolutely. Cause I know it's funny because some of the stuff that you and I have talked about, I'm like, oh, I've totally, you know, I've talked to my therapist about this, but it was like, it was like tackling it from a different angle where then I was like, ooh, I, I do see now how I'm playing this out with clients or potential clients or, or all of that.
So yeah, I just, I love it. I'm such a, I'm such a big believer in it now, but I know today because you are super super well-versed in imposter syndrome and I feel like that is just something that women in general and especially women entrepreneurs, it can be such a thing that holds us back and I know it can also feel like we're the only one who is struggling with it.
And, but the reality is it's all of us. So yeah. I definitely want you to speak a little bit on you know what it is and how we can recognize it and then what the hell we can actually do about it when it creeps in.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah. So I've already worked with a few dozen women this year one-on-one and then many more in a group program and 100% of the women that I've worked with have dealt with imposter syndrome. I think the statistics from some studies said that at least 70% of people suffer from imposter syndrome at some point, my experience so far is a hundred percent of people, at least at some point are dealing with these feelings of like, I'm not good enough, everyone's going to figure out that I don't know what I'm really doing here. I don't have the credentials or the experience or who am I to charge that all of those kinds of feelings that comparisonitis, I don't measure up, all of that goes into imposter syndrome.
And I'm, I mean, I really find that imposter syndrome is kind of the most common way we self-sabotage. And it really is ultimately a self-sabotage technique. And the work that I do with most people goes. Much deeper into the, into the things that cause us to want to self-sabotage, right? So we, you know, if you and we aren't gonna have time to go into all of that stuff now, but I will say that I would love to talk about imposter syndrome and some of the ways you can deal with it, but know that if you are really wanting to do some of the bigger work to get rid of it, instead of just to kind of deal with it, as it shows up, then it's about doing some of the deeper work about understanding.
Hmm, I'm sorry, understanding why that self-sabotage technique is showing up, but that's really what it becomes about. It's about trying to keep you safe and in your comfort zone and so when that imposter syndrome comes up, there's something happening there that's getting triggered. That's saying, Oh, Nope, I need to sabotage this.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And I would guess that with the women you work with since they already tend to be high achievers and they're running businesses and doing all this stuff, I'm sure that they are a lot of women who other women probably look up to and would think, Oh, no, like they're killing it, they must have everything all figured out and feel super confident and great all the time.
And then you get to see on this backend that they're like, oh, yeah, sure; I'm like a multiple six-figure earner or seven figure earner or whatever, or like published author or whatever the case may be and they're still like, yeah, but then this new thing. Crept in, or like, I'm about to embark on this new chapter of my life or my business and now imposter syndrome has reared its ugly head yet again.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah. It makes me think of you saying like when I got on your email list and you're like, well, I can't believe she's on my email list and I, I have my own issues with imposter syndrome. So I'm like, well, what do you mean? Who, who am I I'm like no big deal.
I'm nobody, right? And you may have thought of me in some other way, because you feel like I was maybe portraying myself in some way. Um, I'm a big fan of vulnerability and getting really honest; so with my community, I try to be really open and talk about my own struggles and my own issues around mindset and I do this work and I've done a lot of work with myself, but I still have imposter syndrome that shows up all the time.
Erika, you and I are in a mastermind together, you know, like we talk a little more openly and intimately about things and you know, like I still deal with my own mindset issues all the time. So it doesn't go away and I think that's really important for people to know too about mindset work.
Like it doesn't, there's no like magic pill, there's no cure at all. It's a lifelong journey. It's a real dedication for the rest of your life to say, I'm going to continue to work on my mindset because you don't just get to kind of work on it once and then it's all cured and it's all done because you're right.
Every time you kind of push up against the next level. Whenever you're trying to level up, once you are, whenever you're trying to leave the comfort zone, that's what it's all about every time we try to break out of that comfort zone, the same, stuff's going to come up- all the old fears, all the old limiting beliefs, all those old, um, Sal self-sabotage techniques, including imposter syndrome, it all comes up again.
And you may think like, why is this happening? I've already dealt with this, but it's going to keep happening, the only difference with mindset work is that right? As you go through those things, you are better equipped to handle it; you can recognize things more quickly, and then you can also use your tools, tap into your toolbox and start to get yourself out of those things more quickly- that's what I've noticed for myself is, the fears don't go away. The limiting beliefs don't go away. The only difference now from where I am now and a decade ago is that a decade ago I would be caught in that cycle for so long.
It would get me so down. I would, self-sabotage in big, bad ways and now it's like, I can very quickly start to recognize when I'm having some limiting belief and I can do the work I need to do to get myself out of it and so that the process goes from weeks or months to now maybe sometimes minutes, depending on what it is.
Erika Tebbens: That's so awesome. And so definitely transformational for sure. So what about, I know you've touched on getting out of the comfort zone, so elaborate a little on that; so what is actually happening when our brain is going, you know, you're a fraud, you're going to get found out, everyone's going to hate you. Like they're, you know, you're going to turn on your computer and there's going to be a whole forum on Reddit about how much you suck. Like.
Becky Mollenkamp: Right, oh God, I've never had that fear, now I have to have that to my fear.
Erika Tebbens: Oh no! Oh no!
Becky Mollenkamp: Luckily, I don't even know what Reddit is, I'm so uncle, like, I mean, I've heard of it, but I don't understand it. So I don't have to worry about that.
Erika Tebbens: I never go on there either.
Becky Mollenkamp: You know. Um, yeah. So, yeah, just today, I was talking with one of my clients and it was interesting because we were talking imposter syndrome because almost every call, I feel like some form of that comes up and she was talking about wanting to charge more, but feeling like who is she to do that?
Her work was too easy for her, how could she charge more if it's so simple and, um, you know, she doesn't have all the certifications in the world and you know, all of the degrees and all of that and there's other people who might be doing a better, all the things that we all have these thoughts.
And so for her, those thoughts are coming up because she was wanting to charge more. When she, when we talked about it though, she's like, if I charge, if I don't do any fee for this, like if I do it for free, I have no problem. I can give all of the help. I feel totally confident and great. It's only one, I want to charge more money that all the fears come up. So it's, that's the difference.
It's her leaving the comfort zone, doing it for free feels comfortable because the, the stakes feel low, that's a nice, comfortable place to be. So for whatever your stakes are for you, it might for someone else, it might be, well, I charge a thousand dollars, but if I was to go to $2,000, well, now that's, those stakes are way higher, that feels way more scary.
So I'm comfortable in my current. Steaks, right. I know that people will pay me this, or if it's free while there's no harm, no foul here, I don't have to worry about it. It's whenever we're trying to push ourselves beyond what we know and where we're comfortable and where we feel like no one there's, the stakes are low when you know, it's, whenever we're trying to go beyond that and have higher stakes that's when that imposter syndrome is going to start to show up and say, Oh no, who are you?
And we think it's this valid voice telling us we don't have the right to do it but the truth is it's just ourselves self-sabotaging saying let's just stay here where we're comfortable because going there is scary and humans don't really like being scared so we try to avoid fear.
So it's like, I would rather avoid that fear and discomfort and just stay right here where I know it's okay and so we'll blame it on all these things that, that voice is telling us. But the truth is that voice is our own manifestation of those of our fear and of the fear of that discomfort and so we're creating that and we're assault sabotaging ourselves to keep us right where we are.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, and that is, oh my gosh. It is so, so, so common and even, uh, in, you know, with my own clients and stuff, I will see that as they embark on new paths.
So maybe they've been doing one-on-one work and now they're creating something that is like a course that can reach more people will suddenly now they're more vulnerable because they would be, they're not just contained to like, oh, I do one-on-one work with people locally, now it's oh my gosh anyone around the world could buy this thing that I've created or, yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp: It can be the smallest thing. I mean, it truly can be like, I'm raising my prices by 2%, but that change is enough to push us outside of what feels comfortable and known and, and guaranteed and safe and that can trigger that imposter syndrome to show up, to try and keep us where we are.
Erika Tebbens: Absolutely. So is there a good way when. It does happen. So let's say we are embarking on that new path, that new journey that feels terrifying, uh, what are some ways to kind of see or notice or hear that it's like, oh wait, this is imposter syndrome and not like, these excuses are not actually valid, this is just imposter syndrome being sneaky.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah. Well, a good thing is to look at facts versus stories. So like what's the story and what are the facts? So, that can be hard because we tend to trick ourselves into believing something as a fact. So having to really be critical and if you can't do it for yourself, that's where a coach or a mastermind group or friend, whatever can be helpful to help you discern between what's facts here and what's the story I'm telling myself.
So you may say like, well, I don't have degrees. Well, that might be a fact. The fact might be you don't have a degree in this, but there might also be a fact that no one's ever asked you about your degree. So it doesn't actually matter, or you don't need a degree to do this work that's also a fact.
There may also be like, well, I suck. Well, that's a story, where's the fact? There's no fact in I suck. Right? But what are the facts? Well, the fact are my clients tell me they love my work. Right? Um, I have a hundred percent satisfaction rate or, you know, I, I never have refunds or whatever the facts are like.
So when we can go into. Fact finding mode and say, what are the facts versus a story when it's story, it's usually imposter syndrome there may also be some facts. So that's something I like to work with clients on too, is like, okay, well, let's examine this, what part of this is fact, and maybe there is some fact that you do need to get another certification to really be able to compete in this new market.
Or you do need some training to learn some new tactic because doing this new, you know, this pivot or whatever it is, does involve needing to brush up on some amount of skills. So, but being clear about that on what is actually fact versus what's just story and usually what that imposter syndrome that nasty inner critic, voice it's very black or white, that it gives you messages that are like either you'll succeed or you'll fail.
People are going to hate you, or they're going to let you, whatever, it's very black and white. It's very definitive. It's always like, Nope, this will definitely fail. Instead of being curious, like, well, could we try this? Could it succeed? Or like there's no shades of gray. There's no like, well maybe if we did this, it might, you know, maybe instead of it being either, or maybe there's some middle ground, so you can also look and be listening for, is this really concrete?
Is it super negative? Is it really black and white? Um, and is it caught up in story and not facts? Those are some really good ways to know that this is imposter syndrome and not truly like valid concerns about things you might need to do to like brush up your skills or whatever.
Erika Tebbens: Gotcha. So once you have been able to sort of separate things out and you're looking at that list and you're like, okay, some of these are facts, a bunch of these are stories then how do people do that next scary thing of saying like, okay, I'm just going to go for it or like, how do you talk back to imposter syndrome to be like, all right, I kind of figured you out and I'm going to go forth, like, what's that next step?
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah. I can tell you what most people do is one of two things and neither work very well usually.
So most people will either yell at that voice- shut up, you're stupid, you know, better than this really yelling at themselves. I'm so stupid for thinking that I know better than this. Why am I acting like this? So dumb. Or we try to logic and reason our way out of it. Well, but I have, I'm I'm really smart.
And I have all these satisfied clients and, and which I know I just mentioned, but that's more an understanding of the fact versus fiction, but when we're trying to talk to that voice, you can't reason with it and you can't yell at it when you yell at it all you're doing is adding fuel to the flames, right?
This voice is already telling you you're not worthy and then when you sit there and say negative things back, like, well, I suck the voice is going. Yep, told ya, told you, right? Like you're just, it's only adding fuel to that flame. So that's definitely not going to work and then when we try to logic and reason with it, that voice, that inner voice is a voice of fear, which is an emotional voice.
You cannot reason with emotion. I like to think like, talk about it, like your inner critic, your inner poser syndrome is a two-year-old or a three-year-old. If you've ever had a toddler or been around one, you know that when they throw a fit, when they get in that place of like, they're just losing their mind, it doesn't work to yell at them because that only increases the emotion of everyone in the room. Right?
So if they're throwing a fit and yelling and you're just going, why don't you just shut up! That doesn't work, righ? They're just gonna, they're gonna scream louder to hear, be heard over you and if you say to that kid, well, listen, I don't understand why you're throwing a fit right now. Don't you understand that?
Everything's just fine and you're really safe and blah, blah, blah, like you, can't reason and logic with a three-year-old they're like, they're just a ball of emotion. So what does work? Well, with a toddler, what do we usually do that works the best we get down to their level. We look in their eyes and we say, I see you, I hear you. This is hard. Isn't it?
Right? So we use our core human emotion of empathy. That's a skill, that's the thing that separates us from animals is empathy; that's the only difference really between us and them, right? Is that we have this capacity to be empathetic, which we're really good at extending to others and not ourselves.
So with our imposter syndrome, it's the same thing, like yelling at, it's not going to work reasoning with, it's not going to work. What's going to work with that emotional voice. That's just terrified. That's all it is. It's your inner fears speaking up is to say, I see you and I hear you, right? To, to have some empathy for it and that's where most of us tend to fail. We don't do that.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. We're just so, so, so hard on ourselves and yeah, I mean, I know I have done both of those a trillion times over and yeah, and it was absolutely not helpful at all. Um, but I do know that now when I can name it and just really be like, Oh, okay.
Like I, you know, I see what's going on, whether it's imposter syndrome or like my like, uh, personal one about like disappointing people or whatever, like just being able to be like, oh, wait, I know what this is. Hang on. Like I, you know, I get it. I see, I see what's going on here. Um, and then just being kind of nicer and being like, I get it you're, you know, you're really afraid, you're really freaked out. Uh, you know, yeah. This might not go the way that we hope, but, you know, we won't know unless we try and, and things like that, I find absolutely helps so much better because I used to be just so mean to myself and my inner critic very much.
Uh, I, and I know when you spoke to my Success Squad, you talked about like, like picturing your actual, actual inner critic and I know that for me, mine really looks like the mean girls from the movie mean girls.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah. Lots of my clients use that; I love what you said about naming it and I was going to talk about that, personifying it.
So like, I think that's great. The idea of calling it out, naming it, it helps for a few reasons. One, because it does allow you to kind of just have a conversation with it and the way I was saying about like acknowledging it, but it also helps to remove it from you and the thing is we get so caught up in this imposter syndrome thinking it's us.
Well, that's, that's me telling me I suck. So it must be true. Right? The truth is that voice isn't you, it's an amalgamation of society and culture and teachers and parents and you know, old bosses and everything else. It's, it's all of this other stuff, this other chatter that we've internalized and maybe started to believe, but that doesn't mean it's actually our core spirit who we are, because most of the time when I talk to my clients and I say, well, what do you truly believe?
They usually truly believe well, I am, I'm actually pretty good at this. Right. I really love what I do, my clients like me. I, I love this work. I'm great at this. There's just all this other stuff that's coming up that's the true you is that voice. This is all these other voices that we're keeping in our head and believing that as us.
So when we can name it and when we can personify it as something else, it removes it from us a bit, which can be very helpful and understanding that it's not us, it doesn't have to be truth, we don't have to let it rule us anymore that this is just other stuff that we're internalizing. So I love to talk about personifying it, um, finding something and I always warn, like, don't make it a person, you know, because you may feel some like discord with that person.
So it's better to say like, who's somebody from a movie or a book or in popular culture that kind of profile personas by is this voice for you who, it sounds like the kinds of things they say.
You said yours is the mean girls for me, mine's Kathy Griffin. If for some weird reason she ever listens to this, it's not no personal real incident, Kathy. It's just that when I think about my inner critic, she's that kind of person who makes herself feel better by judging others and I kind of think of those people who are on the red carpet and looking at these gorgeous women and still finding some way to find faults in them.
And ultimately that's really about making yourself feel better. And so I just, Kathy kind of personifies that to me because she's that kind of red carpet person. I could have been Joan Rivers, I guess, uh, that, you know, does that work and so once I do that, so once you personify it and say, okay, I know who that person is for you.
It's Regina, George, I think was her name right?
Erika Tebbens: Yeah.
Becky Mollenkamp: So then it becomes not just about saying, Oh, Kathy Griffin sucks. Right? That's not all that helpful. What's helpful again, is let's get back to that core human attribute of empathy and say, how can I find empathy for Kathy or for Regina? So then it's saying, well, I have in my life have been there where I've wanted to feel better about myself and the way I've done that is by judging someone else or whatever your personal inner critic does.
Yours may not be that thing, it might be something else, but finding that thing that you can share and say, Oh, I can relate to that. I understand it because that helps you also then go from this place of judging it and being angry with it and all of that to saying like, I do see you. I do hear you. I get it.
I get where you're coming from and what you're trying to do right now is like, make yourself feel better by like, making me feel bad, but I don't need that. So like as much as I understand it, I don't need that right now and that whole process can all sound very woo and whatever, and I get it. Cause I'm not a super woo person, but truly that exercise can be so powerful because then it does all of the work for you of saying, okay, I'm removing this voice from me. I'm seeing that it's someone else. I'm also understanding why this person, why this voice is showing up, because it is trying to make itself feel better right now, or protect itself from getting hurt.
That might be what it's about. Like that voice is just trying to say like, well, if I throw out these insults that no, one's going to realize that I actually am just terrified. Right? So protecting itself. Whatever that voice is doing is trying to it's serving its purpose and then I can also like, now have a conversation with it and say like, thank you.
I get what you're trying to do here, but I'm actually going to be okay. Um, so I think that can be incredibly powerful for people when they'll kind of allow themselves to go there and do something that may feel a little woo or a little weird, but truly it can be transformative.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I think it has absolutely been incredibly helpful for me to recognize it as that it's not myself.
Like it's not who I really am, it's not, um, that, you know, it's not like something is inherently wrong with me or whatever and I think it also really helps to know, like I kind of love, uh, so I just. Um, shared the video from the VMA's of like Jonathan Van Ness meeting Sophie Turner and they were both like freaking out and I kind of love that cause it's like, two, two average people were like, Oh my gosh, there are these celebrities and they're these larger than life people but then you see them meeting each other and they're like super fans to each other. And each of them was totally freaking out and I just thought it was such a sweet and pure moment of human connection, but I kind of love it.
It's like, I love when you see the people who you view as on this higher pedestal. And then when they get to interact with, or be interviewed by like, you know, an Oprah or like something like that. And they're like, Oh my gosh, like I'm totally freaking out. I can't believe this is my real life or this is happening.
I feel like it helps reframe for me that like, Oh yeah, we, no matter where we are on like the ladder, what rung we're on that there, even though, like, there are people who we look up to and we're like, Oh, compared to them, like, I'm a, nobody like I'm, you know, but to try to remember that there are still people who are not even quite to where we are, who are actually like looking up to us cause I think we're so good at being, especially for ambitious women, like.
We are so good at being like, well, yeah, yeah, yeah. I would have done that, but I'm not there yet. I'm not at that next, next rung up on the ladder. And, um, you know, when I don't have as much like money as they do, or I don't have as much, uh, you know, clout or notoriety or whatever as they do.
So therefore I suck and I just should, you know, burn everything to the ground and, and all of that, but it's like, Yeah, but wherever, wherever you are at, like whatever you have been able to do overcome, there are actually other people who think your, the bad-ass, which is so weird I think it's just such a hard thing because women are not conditioned to, like we are not conditioned to give ourselves kudos or praise for anything.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah. I mean, it's still, like, I don't mean to keep going back to being hung up on it, but like the idea of you being like, Oh my gosh, she's on my email list that like, to me, exactly. I'm like, so? Like, right, because it's the same thing we both have had this very exciting experience of getting to know somebody I think that we both really look up to Denise Duffield-Thomas and, and being able to have sort of a more intimate experience of knowing her in a way that is like, oh yeah, as cool and amazing as she is and all of that, she's also still really human and deals with really human emotions.
And like when you're lucky enough to have those experiences where you get to sort of know your idols or just see people that you think are 10 steps ahead of you and then learning like, Oh, they still deal with the same, like there, there may be shit or poop on them.
Erika Tebbens: No, you can swear. It's fine.
Becky Mollenkamp: I mean, shit on them, too, whatever, like they're dealing with all the same stuff and they wake up in the morning and without makeup, they, you know, they look like humans and all of that.
Just having those experiences, when you're lucky enough to have those experiences, it does help you a bit start to say like, oh, that's real but if you haven't had that experience, it can be hard to believe because you're like, well, sure, uh-uh, that's not true. But yeah, the truth is the only thing that separates you from the people that you idolize other than maybe some factual amount of experience and or education.
But a lot of times it's not even that most of the time, truly what separates you from the people who are, where you want to go is their belief that they could do it or even better, just their ability to push through the discomfort when they didn't believe they could do it because the truth is fear doesn't go away. We are hard wired to be fearful.
It is our core human feeling like above every other thing. Hear me when I say that, like you are hardwired as a human to be afraid above all else. So that is in every person, there is not a single person oprah still gets afraid, the Dalai Lama still gets afraid.
Every person still has fear that shows up. The only difference is that they've learned how to push through the fear. They've learned how to be get comfortable in the discomfort of being afraid and just doing it anyway. It's that feel the fear and do it anyway thing and it's really true, it's easy, like it's easy for easier for us to be able to blame it on something else and to externalize all of our issues, because then we don't have to take any responsibility.
We don't have to make any change and we don't have to get in the discomfort if we can just say, well, It's because they were lucky. It was because they had more money or they were more privileged and I will quickly make a note to say that there is definitely realities within privilege and I, as a privileged person, absolutely understand that.
But I will say that even within that, we all still have abundance of choice and power to make choices in how we react to the world around us, how we perceive the world around us and how we choose to show up in what we do. And so we still have choice and we can choose to handle our fear differently and so we can continue to say, Well, it's not my fault, it's everything else around me. And if everything else changed and suddenly I would be happy, or we can say I can right now start to make choices that are going to let me be, feel more successful today. Be happier today and start going after the things I want today.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I, Oh my gosh. I love all of that. And I feel like I could just, I could talk so at length about all of that, but I will say, cause I know, uh, just as like the funny side note, Becky and I happened to have the same three core values, which was just really a random thing that we realized afterwards, but I know one of ours is courage and I think that, um, I think that for me, there have been a lot of things I've done over the years that felt absolutely terrifying.
Uh, but I did them anyways, because the way that I always look at it or think about it is I'm like the fear of not knowing what if, like, what if you know, could have happened or like, what would have been the possibility is actually worse than the fear of like the failure or the hardship or the stress or the struggle or anything like that.
Like, cause I've had a whole bunch of things in my life that were like huge flops or big disappointments or just anything like that, where, you know, most people wouldn't categorize it as like a success. Um, but I'm still glad that I did it because I don't want there to ever be a time in my life where I'm like, .An, I just wish I would have tried. Like, even if I sucked, I would have at least love to know, like, it, it truly like one of the things that bums me out so hard is when I meet women who totally could do roller derby.
And they're like, I think it's really cool. I mean, I don't do it right now, but like, uh, who they would say, like they would see me post pictures, I'd be talking about it and then they're like, man, I would love to do that, or I wish I could do that. And I would just always say like, you could though, like, like, yes, maybe it's not the right season for your life. Like I had a season of my life where I took five years off from it. But you can, like, I am not an athletic person.
I'm not particularly super fit. Like I've never played sports before. I could barely even roller skate when I tried out but my desire to play roller derby, like it was greater than that fear of like, what if I show up and I don't make the team, or what if I get really hurt? Or what if everyone laughs at me whatever and I'm glad I didn't let those things hold me back.
Cause that has truly been one of the greatest things that I've ever done for myself, but it was scary all the time. I mean, every practice I was scared, I was intimidated. I was, uh, and I was never really good. Like I was never a great skater or anything. Um, but I'm still glad that I did it. And so I think it's that thing of, like, there are so many other people who could, even if it's for one season experience, the cool feeling that comes from doing something like that and being a part of a community like that but they are so quick to talk themselves out of it because you know, they're like they're not active or they're over 40 or they aren't a great roller skater or this, that, or the other.
And I'm like, who cares? Just like, just go do it because it might be the best thing that's ever happened to you and so, yeah, I feel like that's like, um, a mission I'm on in the world is to be like, just try shit out cause you like, it could be rad, but you don't know unless you like do it scare. Like I kind of live by that motto of like do it scared and so far it's served me pretty well. I feel like.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah. I mean, fear is my favorite topic. I could talk about fear all day long and ultimately that's what all of the work I end up doing with people is about, because it is our most core human emotion is fear and so it drives every decision and it's, it's always there.
And the difference is just on how people learn to deal with fear. There's no getting over fear. I don't even like the word fearless at all, because there is no fearless, there, you still have fear. It's just our relationship with fear and I love working on people with their relationship with fear because ultimately, and I know I don't want to, you know, we have to go wait on this rabbit hole, but ultimately the only thing that we're afraid of is being uncomfortable.
And it's hard for people to realize that, but when you really start to examine it, you're not really afraid of the disappointment or the, um, failure or the, all those things. Because when we follow those things down their rabbit hole to their logical conclusion at the end of that, unless we're truly talking life and death situations at the end of almost all of our fears is the same conclusion.
I'll be okay. Whatever it is. I'm at the end of it. I'll be okay. I've been a failure before and I was okay. I have been embarrassed before and I was okay, like at the end of it, it always comes back to the same thing, which is I'm going to survive, I'm going to be okay. What we're afraid of. Isn't the thing we think we are afraid of. What we're afraid of is just the physical sensation of fear of being uncomfortable.
We are so hardwired to avoid physically feeling uncomfortable, sweating, palms, sweating, heart racing pit in our stomach, lump of the throat, all of those things. We are so hardwired to avoid it, that we will avoid it at all costs and then blame it on the fear of failure but the truth is when we really truly examine it, what we are afraid of is just physically being uncomfortable.
So if we can learn to master that, to understand that, to sit, to work our way through it, to get comfortable in the discomfort, we can do anything.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Oh, I love that. I, I know that like, uh, especially for me. So I recently asked in my, um, in my free Facebook group, I had asked a series of questions using the poll feature that all related to selling and I kind of kept drilling down based on the responses, like over the course of about a week and the, the number one thing that came up.
Why is, it was the fear of like, kind of like how dare you try to charge me for that sort of a thing, or how dare you charge that price, whatever and then when you, like, when I drill down even deeper into that, it was the fear of judgment like that, it wasn't even the fear of, no, it wasn't even the fear of somebody being like gnats.
You know, it's, it's not really, for me, it was people's biggest fear when it came to the discomfort of selling for putting themselves out, there was actually the fear of judgment. And I was like, whoa, my mind is blown because that is that it is that thing.
It's that discomfort it's being comfortable that somebody that you would say like, yeah, I think I could help you and this is my price that I can help you if you exchange this amount of money for that service. Uh, and then the fact that like, there are going to be some people who say no and of that segment of people who say, no, some of those people will judge you.
Like some of those people will be like, are you freaking kidding me? Like she should be doing this for free or who does she think she has? Like, there will be those people, but you know what? I've seen it in a lot of my friends who are entrepreneurs, people still bitch and complain about free content, it's free.
There's no price low enough where you are going to, where there will be zero people judging you. So I think it's just getting more comfortable with the ask and just accepting, like, there will be discomfort in this, but if I don't do it, I also won't be able to serve the people who desperately need the thing I have or would be super jazzed to have the thing that I offer.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah and when you really explore it with somebody, then that judgment, if you really drill into that, even just the fear of judgment, what do you like, what are you afraid of? And have you ever been judged and yeah and then what happened? Well, I survived. Ultimately the answer is always, I survived. I'm still here.
I lived through it. It wasn't fun. I survived it. What are you actually afraid of then? You're afraid of having to sit through the physical sensations that are going to come up in the process of asking for the money of putting yourself out there of waiting for people to respond of potentially then the judgment and what that's gonna feel like inside, which might feel like, you know, you just got punched in the gut, whatever.
And then like, until you get to the place of, well, it's over and I survived. So it's the physical part of it that we're actually afraid of, we're afraid of having to sit there and let our palms sweat while we, you know, put out the offer and having to have the lump in our throat. Before we say the words, I want you to pay me this, and then having the potential of a gut punch when somebody says, who do you think you are until we get to the place of the final place of total relief when it's over.
And by the way, that Gump gut punch of somebody saying, who do you think you are? It doesn't show up very often. So the thing that we, that we think is going to happen doesn't even usually happen, but even if it does, we know we'll survive it.
So what we're really afraid of is just being physically uncomfortable and so if you can just learn to like, okay, this is, I hear I'm going to go do this thing. I'm afraid of it, this is what it's going to feel like. I'm going to get sweaty palms. Then I'm going to get a lump in my throat. Then I'm going to have the punch in my gut, and then I'm going to be all good.
Like if you know it, you can talk yourself through it and you can really do anything.
Erika Tebbens: Absolutely. Yeah. Oh, I love all of this so much, so, so much and I think it's so it's so crucial to kind of master and conquer in order to get to the places where we really ultimately want to be and be satisfied with our lives.
So where else can people learn more or find you, or what do you have going on so that people can get that deeper help that you mentioned earlier?
Becky Mollenkamp: Sure you can go to my website, beckymollenkamp.com. I assume you'll probably put it in the show notes and it's just my name and that's where you can learn about my Gutsy Boss program is what I call my group program that's coming out shortly. I don't know when this will air but will be coming out sometime this fall.
Um, and then I also do one-on-one coaching. So you can book a free discovery call and learn more about that if you're ready to dig in and do the work.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Awesome and I definitely suggest that people check you out and follow you and even listen to your podcast and, and all of that good stuff, because you are just a wealth of good mindset knowledge and I really do think, even though that I tend to go more to the strategy side of things, I know that even a lot of the strategic side of business stuff is the mindset that goes along with it.
And so, uh, which I think truly at the end of the day, like you, somebody could hand you the most perfect strategy on a silver platter, but if your mind isn't right to do it, it's just not going to work. So.
Becky Mollenkamp: Yeah, I mean, I think strategy and tactics are super important and we need to be investing in those things. I just don't want to see people throwing money away on one more strategy, one more tactic over and over again, thinking that's going to be the thing that'll save them when they're not ready to implement those things because their mindset's not right.
So if you get your mindset right, then your investments and strategies and tactics are going to be a much better investment because they will actually be able to work for you because you'll be really ready to do them and to do the work that's needed to make those things work but when you're trying the strategies and tactics without having your mindset right, you're going to set yourself up for failure.
And then I hate it because I feel bad for strategic folks and, and, you know, people are out there selling strategies and tactics, and then people are bad mouthing and saying, well, that strategy doesn't work and the truth is that person may not have even been ready for that strategy, their mindset wasn't right.
And what really kept them from having success was themselves. But again, we don't like to take internalize that. So we externalize it by saying, well, that strategy doesn't work. I tried it. So I think, you know, hopefully people that are selling strategy and tactics, I think they, I hope they see the value in also having a mindset coach partner with what they do, because if we can help get somebody's mindset, right, then they're going to come at that strategy and tactic and actually be able to use it and have success.
And then that's going to make the, the person who's doing strategy and tactics look a whole lot better.
Erika Tebbens: Yes, absolutely. I, yeah. I could not agree. Could not agree more with you on that. So yeah, this has been awesome. Thank you so, so much for your time and your wisdom. And I hope that people check you out and all of that good stuff. And yes, I will put everything, all the good stuff in the links, in the show notes. So.
Becky Mollenkamp: Thanks for having me. This was fun.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Awesome. Thank you. And you're welcome back anytime.
Becky Mollenkamp: Thank you.
Erika Tebbens: Okay. Bye Becky.
