Ep. 155: How to Prep for Hiring & Grow Your Dream Team w/ Patti Meyer
Getting support is so essential for sustainable business growth, but that doesn’t mean you need a full-time employee or huge team to get results either.
There are things to consider before you hire, as you’re hiring, and once your new team member joins your team. That’s why I’m thrilled to invite my own business manager Patti Meyer on to share her extensive knowledge around outsourcing and hiring.
Patti has been part of my team for 2 years but she’s been running businesses for nearly 20, and has a wealth of experience when it comes to leading teams and making sure things are working smoothly behind the scenes. She shares her best practices for prepping systems ahead of hiring, deciding on what help you need, finding the best people, and being able to work well with them once they’re hired.
If you’re ready to grow, or even just thinking about it, check out what she’s got to share.
Bio:
Patti Meyer is the Founder and CEO of BizMagic, a Virtual Business Management and Support Agency, where she and her team support female and non-binary entrepreneurs doing good in the world who feel overwhelmed by the back-end tech of their business and need help making it all hum.
BizMagic creates, implements, and teaches the tweaks that help its clients to make a bigger impact with less stress. Patti has been in business management and working with entrepreneurs for over 20 years and her favorite things to do in her business are strategizing with clients, building websites, and helping train her team to support all of BizMagic's clients.
When she's not working, she loves to be in nature or with her kitties.
Links:
https://bizmagic.co/study-hall
https://www.instagram.com/bizmagicco
Plan for Profit: bit.ly/planforprofitguide
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On this episode of sell it, sister, I am incredibly excited to invite my business manager, Patti on to talk all about systems and hiring and working well with. Teammates team members, people who you bring on to support you. And Patti has been with me for over two years now. She started as my virtual assistant.
Now she is my business manager. Uh, she basically runs all of the behind the scenes for my business and she's just awesome. Uh, she's been integral to my growth and she is a wealth of knowledge when it comes to all things, uh, you know, back end of a business systems, delegation. Team, et cetera. So she came on to share her knowledge with you.
If you are thinking about growing a team, In the near future or right now, or if you just want to even be prepared, uh, several months in advance, which honestly, if that is you, you are in a great spot because some of the things we are going to talk about are things you can do well in advance of hiring and they will actually set you up for.
Uh, an even easier, more streamlined experience when you do hire so a little bit about Patti. She is the founder and CEO of biz magic, a virtual business management and support agency where she and her team support female. And non-biased non-binary entrepreneurs doing good in the world who feel overwhelmed by the back end tech of their business and need help making it all.
Hum. Biz magic. Implements and teaches the tweaks that help its clients to make a bigger impact with less stress. Patti has been in business management and working with entrepreneurs for over 20 years. And her favorite things to do in her business are strategizing with clients, building websites, and helping train her team to support all of biz magic's clients.
When she's not working, she loves to be in nature or with her kitties. And I am lucky enough that she sends me photos of her cats being ridiculous. Uh, while she's trying to work during the day, she sends them to me on Voxer and they just cracked me up and I love it. So. With all that being said, let's go to the episode.
Hello, Patti. Welcome to the, sell it sister podcast. I'm so glad to have you super, super excited. And, uh, this is really cool because usually you are on the other side of the podcast in the, behind the scenes, and now you're actually on the podcast. So welcome. Thank you. I'm super excited to be here. It's fun to be on the other side.
Yeah. And so I will let you introduce your self in just a second, but for those of you who don't know, I mean, if you've worked with me in the last couple of years, you probably are familiar with Patti because she is my business manager. So you probably have either interact with interacted with her, or just heard me talking about.
But, uh, but yeah, if you have not been behind the scenes, working with me in my business, you may not know about Patti, but Patti started, um, just over a couple years ago as my VA. And then as her business grew and my business grew, she then became, I don't know, maybe a year ago, maybe a little less than a year ago.
My business manager and yeah. And so it's, it's been very cool. She has a. Like I said, really grown with me and I've got to watch her business grow and she knows a ton about hiring people system. Team leadership, all of that. And since I know a lot of my listeners and a lot of my clients are also, you know, these are things that come with growth territory.
I wanted to, I wanted to bring her on so she could share her wisdom. So yeah. Why don't you tell people a little bit more about. You and biz magic. Yeah. Um, it's super awesome to, to show up in this way and to get to talk about the stuff that I always do in the background and stuff. So I've been doing this kind of work for about 20, 20 years or so.
Um, but biz magic officially started about five years ago. And so we primarily support female entrepreneurs. Who are doing good in the world in some capacity. So we work with a lot of coaches and alternative healers and I'm marketing coach, like all sorts of people all over the spectrum, as far as that goes, and we help them with the backend of their business.
Um, making sure that all of their systems are running well, doing website design and maintenance and basically anything. Tech, um, we do help with social media and admin, just like pretty much anything that needs to happen on the back end of a business. That's what we do to sort of help people out of the muck of it all and to be able to kind of get their bearings and actually move in their business a little bit forward.
So, and it's something that I'm a technical. Hardcore. So I love doing this stuff and, you know, I was building websites back in the nineties when you had like the Yahoo website builders or whatever fan girl sites and stuff like that. So, um, yeah, it just sort of made sense that when I started this business about five years ago, like I said, it, it was just me and I didn't have plans for it to grow into this big thing.
Um, but I've been an operations before and. Managing people forever. So it just sort of made sense that when I hit that point of growth, I just kinda kept going. And so now it's turned into an agency. And as of right now, there are 14 of us kind of running and role running the show. Yeah. That's so cool. And yeah, I had mentioned, um, in my episode, on a rebranding that you were the one who did my new website and I love my new website and I've gotten so many compliments on it.
So yes, Patti also does websites and, uh, and yeah, and it's, it's kind of cool. Like, you know, I'm big on. Relationships and connections. And you, I connected you to Tasha booth and who is one of my closest friends. And then she has held. You grow your agency and it's, it's a full circle moment. It's very cool.
Yeah. Yeah. It's true. Yeah, because when I kind of reached that point of kind of those growing pains of like, what am I going to do with this business? And how do I actually do it? You had mentioned, oh, you should check out this episode. I did with Tasha. And I was like, oh, and I listened to it. Who is this magnificent being, and I must follow her.
And then I joined her agency thrive program. So shout out Pasha. Yeah. She's amazing. Yeah. It's really helped a lot in, in scaling in that way. Yeah. And so, you know, speaking of scaling and growing, I know that one of the first things that when I'm working with people and they're really in. A growth phase where it's becoming too much for them to kind of do all of the stuff that really needs doing.
Uh, one of the things that I have helped them with is really explaining like, okay, before you bring someone on, there are some things to do. And sometimes like in the work that I do with them, I'm like, okay, some of this, like you actually probably don't need. I need to be doing it. Like at all, like, you don't even need to pay someone to do it.
Like we can just simplify, we can streamline, but then there are always other things that I tell them to like, Hey, you know, be ready, like record yourself, doing some of the things you regularly do. And I know that this is one of the things that you help people with is strategizing, preparing to hire. So what are some of the things that you suggest people do before they.
Slapped together, a job description and start shopping around for help. Yeah, I think that's a great question. And so I think, I think one of the important things is first that a lot of people are scared to even get to that point and don't even know how to put together a job description or what questions to ask and things like that.
So I think that there's a lot of conversation that needs to happen too around even recognizing that they're at that point to, to find somebody to hire. Right. And then. You know, a lot of times people say you need to hire somebody before you think you're ready to hire them, because when you do it just on the fly, like when you're at the point of overwhelm and it's kinda too late, almost like you're just sort of being reactive and then you're putting a band-aid on and you're finding anybody.
To fill whatever need you're at. But if you think ahead, and so this is kind of where that preparation comes in is if you start thinking ahead where you're at now and your business is like, what are the things that, number one you don't like doing in your business, but also you aren't very good at and, and be okay with the fact that you're not very good at everything in your.
Because you shouldn't be like, there's no reason that you should know how to do everything that goes on in your business. Right? Like if you're a coach, right. You know, like you, you specialize in marketing, right. So why should you know how to set up an email marketing platform and what emails to send and how to build your website?
And you knew how to do some of that stuff already, but like, you don't need to specialize in it. Right. You need those things. So. Starting at that point of just saying, okay, where, where are the areas of my business that I am not that great at? And what are the things I don't like to do? Or, you know, be, be honest with yourself and look at where you sort of displaying avoidance behavior.
Right? What are the things you're just like, ah, I don't need to do that. It's okay. You know, like, and pushing things aside. Which become problems later. So that's the first place, cause that will start to inform the kind of person you need to hire and what they can do in your business. Right. And again, you have to make peace with that and let go of any shame that might be around you actually needing help in the first place.
And then. You know, start tracking your time on the, on the tasks that you are doing that, you know, you don't want to do. Can you start tracking your time, like start maybe for, you know, if you need to start at on a day, um, or do it for a week and use something like toggle, which is a free app for you to track your time and you just click start every time and you write down what you're doing.
Um, and you start really paying attention to. Where you're spending your time and your days and your weeks. And that's going to also start to inform, okay, these are the things that I don't really need to be doing because as a business owner, when you're ready to start getting a little bit of help, it's best for you to be spending your time doing things that.
Directly create revenue and the business. Right. So where are those areas that you can start to hand off? Um, either things that are tedious and you don't like to do, or those specialized skills that you like, why do you need to learn how to do that? You know, like, are you ever going to do this again, other than right now for your business, then maybe find somebody who can do that for you.
So those are kind of the starting points. And then I liked kind of what you said about recording yourself, right? Can you. Make notes of things, either record yourself using loom, which is free, or just take notes and write down processes of. This is how to do this thing that I'm doing that eventually I want to never do again in my business and have somebody else do.
Yeah. And I know, um, what was the one I like, I sat on Tik TOK and S and I sent you the other day. I think it's called torch or something that just like records your screen. It's like a Chrome plugin. Yeah. It's not, I don't think it's towards it's something else. I can't remember what it is. Yeah, I know. I just saw another one.
I forget who posted it the other day. That was like, but yeah, like there's all these ways where it's like, yeah, if you're, um, using zoom or loom or, uh, you know, whatever, like just filming your own screen on, like, I know you can do it on like a Mac, um, Where, what I did, this is what I did way, way back with my podcasts.
Like this was the, it was one of the. Easiest things for me to hand off. Um, because it was just a very simple, like workflow that I had. There was just a lot of moving parts and pieces and it was time consuming. And so I literally had just like recorded myself. Making the graphics in Canva and like uploading it to Libsyn and just literally talking it out and just explaining what I was doing and why I was doing it.
And yes, there are better ways to do it, but then it's also like, but your person can then streamline that SOP, that standard operating procedure, like that can be part of their, of their tasks, but it was so nice to just. Uh, be able to actually record it and all of the steps, because there really are more like I have found, like when I'm accustomed to doing something, I forget how many steps there are because some of them just become second nature.
And so it was really helpful to. Put it into a process and say like, oh, this is, these are all of the things that I do. And then now you can make it into actual steps that you do every time. Yeah, exactly. I looked while you were talking and it's tango is the name of the Chrome extension that it does it take screenshots of like, you just turn it on and you do work and it takes screenshots of what you're doing.
When you move and it's amazing. It's so cool. Writes it out and you can edit it and stuff like that. But yeah, I also like, that's one of the main things that I do. I do a lot of training on my team, right. So that's a big hiring and training is a big part of what I do inside of my business, which for me is really comfortable because I've done it for so long.
Right. But for a lot of people, it's, it's not as easy and it's fumbling. And I was fumbling when I first had to interview people and stuff like that. But. You know, I'm the queen of loom videos. We literally, inside of my notion for our biz magic hub have a database of over 500 videos. Oh my gosh, me talking on loom as I, because that's what I do.
I'm like, if somebody has a question, I'll hop on loom and I'll record myself doing it. And then I have one of my team members once a month go into my loom and they'd put it into our database and organize it by platform. So if anybody needs to learn a platform, they go in and search for the platform and they have.
A billion videos of me talking, but, but doing that really makes it quick and easy for somebody to just watch it. And they can go back to that specific point over and over again. Like how did she do that? How did that happen? And so the more you can record those bits for yourself, even if you feel like you're not quite ready yet, but maybe in like six months, you'll hire somebody recording that stuff.
Now we'll make onboarding them later. So much easier because you have all this stuff that you've been doing and you're ready to go, but also it might remind you how much time you're spending doing that stuff like afterwards looking at, oh, that was a 20 minute video. What can I do? Like how can I shorten that?
Can I give this to somebody else? Because if I'm doing that 20 minutes every day, how much time am I spending doing that? When I could be trying to get new clients or doing whatever else might be needed in my business. Yeah. And I am still, um, toggling, if you will, right now, uh, I'm pretty much going to do it.
I think all of Q2, because I just want to see the trends over time. Obviously, you know, it doesn't capture every single thing. Like if I'm boxing you on the go, I'm not, you know, I'm not tracking that, but for the most part, it, you know, it's tracking stuff and, um, I'm also somebody who was really, really, really resistant to time-tracking for the longest time and just like anything else, it can just become a habit.
And for me, how I finally motivated myself was like, if I actually can see where my time is going, I can make better decisions about what to take off of my plate. And also like what is actually moving the needle forward so that I would know, like, Do I even need to hire this out? Cause I think of it, like, not that there's anything wrong with podcasting agencies.
I know there are plenty of great ones, but like we have a system that doesn't require me to spend a whole heck of a lot more on an agency than I do for the team. Right. And so like by me knowing that and having some of those systems in place, like it saves me money and it saves me from having to have an entirely separate contractor and like.
I don't know. I just, for me personally, I find it's easier to just keep it in house. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think kind of to that point when you're, when you're tracking that, and you're doing those videos and tracking your time, not only do you see what. You don't need to outsource further, but what just might not even be worth doing you're like, what are you doing in your business that you don't need to be doing at all?
Yeah. Like what are those things that you're like, does this actually do anything for me? This is how much time I'm spending here, but I'm not seeing anything from that. So do I even need to be doing that? So, so it can also kind of put you in a position where you're like, maybe I don't need to hire anybody at all, or maybe I only need to hire somebody.
A little bit. And that's another part of when you're thinking about hiring is people get really concerned that they have to hire somebody and be their sole source of income. And that's not, it's not true. Right? So you can hire people. To just do something for as a project, you can hire people for. I mean, we have people that work with us that just email us whenever they need something and people who are on five-hour month retainers, there are tons of VA's out there and tons of service support people who will absolutely support you where you're at.
And there are people on the flip side that require, you know, 20 hours a week or something like that in order to work with them. And that's cool too. You don't have to necessarily be swimming in the profit and have a ton of stuff for somebody to do to hire out small things. You could start by hiring out just your podcast process, right.
Or just your, I send my emails once a week, but doing that is too much time. And it's frustrating to me. I don't like the tech behind it. So why do it? You can hire somebody just to do that. And so I think when we think about. Doing smaller bits of hiring out. It makes it more accessible and less overwhelming because you're not finding a whole person to take over all these things on your team and worrying about, well, what if I have an ed month?
And I can't, you know, pay somebody or I don't have as much this month. Like you don't have to worry about. Yeah. And that was, um, the first things I ever outsourced we're projects. One was a tech project with active campaign because I was launching and I was like, I could learn and this, but I don't want to.
And what was really great. When I wrapped up with her, this was ages ago. She recorded a video for me of the automation. So then for a long time after I was doing my. Automations. And it was so much more helpful for my learning style to have her show me what she had done and why. And then I knew how to just like duplicate it, which was fantastic.
And then later on, I had somebody who helped me with like blog posts for a little bit. I had some and, uh, she just kind of like. I dunno, made them better at a graphics, like just different things like that. And, uh, and it was, it was super, super helpful and it was just a self-contained project. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.
I mean, it makes such a big difference when you look at it from that way and yeah, findings, I think that's important too, is finding somebody who's going to give you what you need and what, what you want. So, Right with the active campaign projects. It was somebody who was not only going to set this up for you, but who was also going to say, okay, here, can I, here's a, a video showing you how to use your platform, showing you why, why this works?
Here's the logic behind this funnel. And here's how you can maintain this moving forward, because then it also makes it, so you're not reliant on this other person necessarily, right. Because there's those things too, where sometimes. You know, depending on you know, who you find out there that may make it so that you have to, you know, use them over and over again.
But so you want to find somebody who's really able to show up the way that you need them. Yeah, absolutely. That's that's an excellent point. So let's say, so you, you time track, you figure out what you're doing. You figure out where you want help. And then what is the next best step from there? Yeah, well then it would be to try to find people, right?
So now, now, you know, now you're like, okay, these are the things that I want help with. This is maybe how much time it might take. And you might not know that. Um, and it also is important to remember that when you talk to people, if you find the right people, they can help guide you into the ways that they can help you in your business too.
And once somebody starts to get into your business, And you start building that trust right with them. Then they can start seeing some gaps in your business too, but that's sort of a few steps ahead. So the first next step would be. To start figuring out where, where do I find somebody? Right. So the first thing you do is if you have most entrepreneurs, have other entrepreneurs, friends, at least a couple, or they're in some sort of group on Facebook, or they're in, maybe have a coaching.
Program or something like that. So start there, go to those places, go to those friends and ask, you know, does anybody recommend somebody start with referrals? Um, because you know that they're trustworthy people that are going to be referred to you in most cases. Um, and then you can kind of reach out to those people, right?
So that's the first step. If you don't have any referrals at that point, then there are a lot of Facebook groups and things like that. And places you can go to, to try to find, um, VAs. Cause they're. A booming industry right now. Like, you know, this is going to sound like, you know, I did this way about before was a thing.
Like, I didn't know, VA's when I was doing it. You know, it was a long time ago. It was 20 years ago when I did it because I was working in a nonprofit theater in San Francisco and needed to make money on the side to survive. And so I started helping an entrepreneur and her business at home. And so. You know now though, especially, especially even now, even more after COVID, but before that it really started to grow.
So there is thousands and that like I'm in a group that has like 50,000 people in it. And a lot of them are VA's that are wanting work and wanting support. So that's can be overwhelming. Right. So that's why I'm starting with that referral is really good. But then if you decide you're ready to like go into a group to ask those questions.
You want to be clear again on what you think you need right now? So what are the skills that somebody might need to possess in order to do that? Right. So say if it's helping you with your emails, they need to have some sort of tech knowledge, right. Um, you know, if you're talking about writing, that's usually a different.
Gil level and a, and a bit higher of a level to help with copywriting and stuff like that. But most cases, people are starting out with needs that are administrative, helping them organize their inbox, helping them tech is a big one, helping them with tech and their business. Cause there's a lot of stuff.
As far as that goes that you need to set up and make sure it's working. So you want to start by trying to. Figure out what are the skills they need that you need. And then when you post make a post in a group, or when you reach out to somebody, you can kind of then say, these are the things I need, right?
These are the areas I'm looking for, helping. Um, And then here's something that I think not enough people talk about, but I think is really important is own your values as a business and as a person. Um, and that's one of the reasons to try to get ahead of hiring instead of doing it kind of in the moment as a quick fix, because you want to make sure that you're taking the time.
I find somebody who is in alignment with whatever your beliefs are and it's going to be a fit for you because this is your business. This is your baby. This is your, you know, and you're working closely with this person. You're letting them into these close parts of your business. They need to have a lot of the same, you know, values as you do.
And so that's a really important thing. Um, so make sure you write that down on that. You can talk about that and you're comfortable talking about that. Um, And then, yeah, so that's, that's kind of the next step is you put it out there, you ask people, you put it in a group and then you'll start kind of getting these responses in.
And then the next step would be like interviewing and kind of going through that whole process, um, as well, which is a whole other kind of wild game and there's, and there's stuff with that too. There's tips for all of that, but yeah, that's kind of the next step is just get out there and start asking.
Yeah. And do you suggest that people put in. Whatever tech they're already using that they're pretty comfortable with like, so for instance, like I would say, you know, needs to be familiar with Squarespace thrive cart, active campaign, like kind of like those different notion, those different things so that they, um, it's, it's like reducing the amount of people that you have to.
Kind of go through as potential candidates. Yeah, absolutely. So it's really important when you're making that post and you're putting that information out there. You do want to be as specific as possible. So these are the, this is your tech stack is what that's called. So this is your tech stack. These are the, the platforms that you're using.
Um, and you know, if you're open to switching or it could be that you don't even know what to use. Right. So, and that's something to put out there too. Um, and then another thing is, um, you know, you don't have. To put your rate in there. What you're looking for, right. As a contractor, people are going to come to you and say, this is how much I charge.
So, but it can help kind of whittle people down a little bit. If you say, Hey, this is my, you know, there are people anywhere from $15 an hour to 70 or $80 an hour. So that's a really large range. Right. And that's a real range. So you want to think about what can you afford in your business right now? And then that next thing is to also say, this is how much time I'm thinking this will take, even if you don't know exactly, but you can get a gauge on that, right.
By doing that time tracking. So you can say, okay, it's probably going to be two hours a week, or it's going to be 10 hours a week. So putting that in that post or in sharing with your, um, your associates and things like that, that's going to also help kind of home in on the people who, uh, You are attracting to you.
And you're always going to get people who are gonna just be like all in and oh, somebody is posting a job. I'm just going to respond to it. And there's people who don't listen and don't read. So, you know, you want to, I, I tend to ask very specific questions. Like if I want people, I like to have people, um, I have people all over.
The world, but more and more, I like people who tend to be in my time zone just for getting things done in a certain way. So if that's an important thing to you, make sure you include that and anything you can do to make sure that yeah, you, you home, the, the group of people is, is the best option. Yeah. And I know too, like if it's important to you to have, um, you know, like somebody in your time zone or whatever, like you can put the.
In there to like, you know, prefer to have somebody on Eastern time. Like you can, yeah. You can certainly have, have all of those things in there as well. For sure. I love it. So. Okay. Yeah. So you get your, you figure out what you need. You figure out the time you figure out the approximate amount you want to spend.
You. Posted you do some like interviews, some like preliminary, uh, like looking over their, their resumes and things like that, making sure that they're a culture fit. So now you're working together and. What do you suggest for when you start working with somebody? I know we were kind of VOC stirring about this the other day.
Um, but I feel like this is sort of the other place where things tend to go off the rails. Yeah, absolutely. So there's, there's a lot there. So the first thing is. And I cannot preach this enough, make sure there's a contract involved. So oftentimes, uh, the VA themselves will have, uh, or the service provider will have a contract.
If they don't, then you're going to need to find one. Um, you know, there's a lot of templates out there, so you can kind of go and find a template and piece something together and then talk to your lawyer so that they can kind of just double check it and make sure that it sounds where you want to make sure confidential confidentiality is covered.
Um, and, uh, intellectual property is, and also all those things. Cause oftentimes they're going to maybe make graphics for you or they're going to be, you know, and they're going to be in your, your accounts and things like that. So you want to make sure that, you know, that's covered as far as contractually speaking, and then also how much you're paying that.
What, what you've agreed upon. Right? So that's the first thing, make sure that that's the case. Then what I do when I work with, with people, when they first join working with biz magic, we have a strategy session. So we sit down and just talk it out. Right. We use that for an hour and I'm just like, tell me everything.
Where are you overwhelmed? Where do you feel stuck? Where are you confused? Where. You know, just whatever. So I recommend having some sort of session like that with your person, so that you can really talk to them genuinely about where you want to go in your business, the goals you have for it, and where you're feeling stuck right now.
And let that. Share their ideas. Um, I do recommend whenever possible, if you're bringing somebody in and they're at a level that you feel comfortable letting them partner with you, right? I mean, let them be open to hearing their feedback. One of the things I said to you when we, we worked on your website is, I mean, your, the website I created for you, Erika is like the best I've ever made.
So much. And so much of that was because you were like, go for it. Like you spend the time and the, and the investment and getting really amazing photos and branding, but you were just like, have fun. Like I welcome your input. And in general, you're so good at like, this is what I'm good at. This is what I'm not good at.
And I want to hear from you about the things I'm not good at. And so. Being in a position where you can honestly be okay with not knowing things and trusting the service provider to know their stuff. And taking their feedback is going to help you go a long way in that relationship and then also be patient, right?
So it's going to take time. They don't know you, they can't read your mind. They have, it takes time for them to learn your style, your voice. You know, if they're responding to emails, if they're creating social media content, if they're, and, and, and we all think differently too. Right. So if they're coming in and they're going to help you organize your.
The way you process information is different than the way I process information is different than the way every other client. I have processes information. So it's really important for you to be open about how you prefer information be shared with you really communicate. So I would say hands down communication in general is the best possible thing you can do to make this relationship successful.
And give feedback, make sure you have somebody who's comfortable with that. And if you don't like what they do tell them, you know, like don't, because that happens too. Sometimes people are like, well, I don't want to hurt their feelings. I don't want to, you know, like, and that's cool. I get that. But like, if you don't.
Then you're holding that in and you're not giving them the opportunity to show up and, and support you and your business and the best possible way that they can. So the more you can give them feedback, the more they're able to show up for you and grow with you and your relationship can grow together.
Yeah. And I would say that has been the biggest, uh, Like, like the most crucial element. Right. And it's like, something that I've seen too in the past from folks is kind of like you were saying at the very beginning where it's a very like reactive hiring situation. Like I kind of view it in a couple of ways, right?
Like there are people that you can get and pay less, and there's a bigger learning curve and you have to be more patient or you can pay. More, and they're going to be ready to just hit the ground running like more so than, than not. Right. So I, I kind of view that as like a. For instance, uh, at the 11th hour with the website, when I was just like, I just need to have some, I need to hire somebody for help with some of the copy, because I just do not have time and I'm overthinking it and whatever.
And so like, I went to somebody who had been a client of mine and I knew she's an expert and she works really quickly and she totally knows my business and she knows my brand. It was a very quick turnaround and it was perfect. It was really, really, really good. But you know, if you're working with somebody who is maybe more junior and they're just starting to learn copywriting, you might be able to hire them for less money, but understand that that comes with.
Time. Right. And so, uh, I've definitely had people in the past where they're like having their VA or their OBM like trying to do kind of higher level things. And then they're getting really frustrated because they are already so overworked that they're like, I don't have time to really teach this person.
It's like, yeah, that's not really like a fair position to put somebody. And like, sometimes it's, it's sort of that thing it's like, sometimes you have to either like slow down to speed up or you've got a. Maybe invest more than you would have liked to do, but now you're in a time crunch and you just gotta do it.
So, yeah. Yeah. And I think that's really important to, to kind of note is that, like I said, the, that, uh, the range of costs in that world is very, very large and that's part of it, right. Is I've hired in, in my agency. Right. I've hired what I call baby. VA's right. They're brand new. They're. And I, you know, they're great at what they're doing, but they're new to this type of work.
And so there's training involved in that, but I'm fine with that. Right. I, and I, and I know that by doing that, I'm hiring somebody who I'm going to spend time training, who I have resources built up for training and who I am also then, because part again, of what I want to do is support women and raise women up.
So I'm getting to now support this woman as she grows in her business and learns and stuff. But sometimes. I don't have time for that either. Right. So I also have VA's who are on the team who are higher level, who get paid a little bit more, who, you know, have a different set of skills. And I lean on them all in different ways at different times, depending on what I'm able to offer for guidance and what I just need done.
But no matter what, and even when you have people at that high level, they still need to. Now you got a faster turnaround with the person who was doing the copy, because like you said, she knew your, she was a client. So had she not been your client, there would have still been a bit more of a learning curve, even if she's a higher level, because she needs to learn who Erika cabins is totally.
And what you stand for. And so I think that that happens also is that because you pay more, you expect that they're just going to know it and they're going to show up and be like, yeah, And it's like, and they will at a much higher level. But it still takes time. And so you really need to have that patience.
And, and like I said, that communication and just being open to talking about it, I think we'll it'll happen so fast, um, when you're able to do that, as opposed to kind of tiptoeing around things and, and having that person be able to be open to that feedback. That's a key, right? That. And that's like, the first thing I say is I'm like, you can't hurt our feelings.
It just tell us how it is. And we're good. Like, you know, I don't know you, how do I, how am I going to be able to build something for you right away? You know? Yeah, exactly. And, and I feel like, um, it's, uh, it is, it is tricky. Like when you have not had any type of like leadership or managerial experience or anything, it can be really.
Uncomfortable to be like, oh gosh, now I have to like, course-correct this person or whatever. Um, but yeah, but it is like, like you said, like it is important to just communicate respectfully so that they can have an opportunity to fix it. And, and also just like understanding that it's, it's a two way, it's a two-way street.
Um, And that, you know, there is sort of also the difference. Cause I know on the online space, there's a lot of stuff between like, you know, contractor or employee and like, as you keep growing, I think that's important to know too is like, if you have a lot more stipulations that start to go into employee territory.
Really in a values aligned place to actually hire somebody as an employee and not to have a contractor that you're giving 40 hours a week of work and no benefits and very defined working hours. Like, no, that's an employee at that point. Like you just, you have them as an employee. And like, and then also conversely, like if you aren't ready or don't want to have that responsibility of the employee is understanding that.
A contractor is also not your employees. So you, there are different like boundaries and limitations there, um, as well that just have to be considered and respected. So, uh, so yeah, and I think, um, I know for us, one thing that has been really. Uh, important for me is like, it's also just like how you said, like communicate how you like to communicate and like how you process information is just like, I know it's easiest for me to just.
Voxer you and the team, right? Like it's, it's just literally the easiest and like it's easy. It's easiest if you create the SLPs and have them internally. But like with the understanding that like, unless I'm in a pinch, I am probably not going to be going back in there looking at them because it's not.
It's just not how I operate and like that that's okay. Like, it's totally fine that, like, I know you always say like, your job is like herding cats and stuff and that like, and that's okay. Like I'm okay. Being. A hot mess with you. Cause it's like, it's, it's not like it's just the relationship. Right. And like, I can still be like respectful and communicative, but like that I don't have to, like, I can just show up as who I am and I don't have to pretend to be somebody I'm not.
And you're like, it's all good. And like, This is what we love to do, and this is where we shine. So don't worry about it. Yeah. And I think that goes back to kind of what I mentioned a little tiny bit in the beginning, which talking about that shame, right. Is that there's so much shame that people have around needing support and showing up as they are and feeling like, oh, I'm a mess, right?
We work with several neurodivergent clients. So people who'd need different attention spans with things and need us to organize information in certain ways. And then just in general, we all are different with that. And so I kind of joke with people on a regular basis that like, I feel like I'm looking at everybody's underwear drawers all the time, you know, without being like, you know, because, because there is that point where people are showing up as they are, and we are all men.
And so am I right? Like I go to my assistant and I'm like, ha, but then I'm like, when I help all these other people with it, and I had this whole moment of shame where I was struggling and my inbox was overflowing and all of this stuff. And I'm like feeling embarrassed and shameful that I need support from my assistant to help me get my stuff together here.
Because I do this for everybody else, so I should be able to do it for myself. Right. That's how it should work. So I should be embarrassed and horrified, but I'm not because I'm still a person and I'm a business owner and that's just a part of it. So being okay with wherever you're at and showing up where you're at and that you do need help is so, so important because.
Like, it's not going to, you're not going to get very far if you try to put on the perfect face all the time. And, and yeah, I have people that come to me. I have clients who cry with me. I say, half the time, I feel like a therapist, which is great. Cause I started going to school for psychology. So I'm like, so here for it.
But like, you know, like it's, that's just how it is. It's a part of it. So embrace it. Show up messy. Be messy trust that person and together you work through it and trust them to hold that space for you. Like a good surface person will service provider will hold that space for you. You know? And, and that, that creates an amazing relationship.
Like I would love to just hang out with you, you know, like, you know, like that's just how it is. Like, so many of my clients, I have these amazing relationships that I'm like, we just chat sometimes on boxer or share me, you know, like, yeah. Yeah. That's just how it becomes. Yeah. And I think too, also, just to like, echo back what you had said earlier about like being open to feedback or suggestions, like there's so many times where you have said like, what if we do it this way, or I have this idea or would you be open to this?
And, and then I'm like, oh yeah, like that's really cool. Like, I would have never thought about that. Or, you know, Or like, oh yeah, that does seem a lot like simpler, whatever. And also just like understanding that, uh, you know, it's, it's sort of weird when you get to a point and I like, you know, I'm a 10 quick start, so this is like ridiculous.
But, um, but you get to a point where you're like, you're not like a little rowboat that can just like turn on a dime. You're like a bigger, you're like a bigger ship that is. It's going to take a little bit more time to make certain things happen. And so I just know now, like you and the team have spent, like, we spent Q1 really like cleaning up a lot of backend stuff.
And so now I just know like when we put together sales page and stuff recently, like that whole workflow, it was like, I'm like, I know there are elements that I can do. Like I know how to go into thrive cart and make a payment link. And like, I know how to like set an automation up an active campaign. I know how to do that.
But also like I respect that we have these processes now and in order to keep things clean and like going smoothly, it's important for me to be patient and be like, I'm not going to tinker. I'm just going to let the team do what they do on their part. And I can then do my part and it will be harmonious and it will be fine.
I mean, all that to say, like, if I really, really wanted to just whip something up on a Saturday, like I certainly could like privately for a one-on-one client or something I certainly could. And it wouldn't be the end of the world, but that. Part of having support and having a team is like, it gets to be a point where I feel like for, for me, what it looks like is like respecting everyone else's zones of genius and like their time and their energy and being like, okay, if I do this, like, Are there, am I creating more problems for myself?
Like as the, as the CEO, am I actually going to make it worse for myself and my team? Or could I just be patient and like, Like wait a little bit and just have the process go smoothly so that things don't break and yeah. Just become a mess. And, um, and also too, like one thing that has been helpful is now with my clients.
Uh, and I think this is something that's really vulnerable, vulnerable for people at, at first as well. Cause they're like, are my clients going to be pissed? If they don't have access to me all the time is really saying. Oh, these, you know, like, like making it part of the culture of like, this is Patti, if you need Patti, you know, and I know, I remember way back, like in the interview I did with Tasha, she talked about like having her point people for her clients and like setting that up from the start so that clients would know like, oh, they don't go to Tasha.
They go to their client manager. And so I feel like that has been helpful because again, it's just sort of like, Those things that you need as you grow, like you need different boundaries, you need, um, you know, a little bit more like patients, more communication, like you need these different things. And so I feel like it's all this exercise in like, like yeah, in allowing yourself to be supported and allowing other people to do what they do best.
And also trusting that like, they will get it right. Like you don't have. Be so stressed that it's going to be a disaster. Yeah. And I think that number one, Part of why, like, so talking about what we just did, right. That kind of quick start, and you were like, I want to do the sales page and we got it done in a day.
And the reason that was, was because we've had this communication and built this trust and created these processes over time together. We had a whole system in place that when you were like zero to 10 and you were like, let's do this thing now. And we were like, all right, Erika. And we did it, you know, but we could do it in a day because we had on the back end, all of us together, worked on creating this process of streamlining it for it to happen that well, but also that part.
My job is showing up in the way that had you decided to just go for it. My job is to show up and be there and support you in whatever messiness might've happened or just whatever the case may be, because it's your business ultimately, and you can do whatever the heck you want, you know? So should you have wanted to do that?
All right, cool. And that, and there wouldn't have been judgment. There wouldn't have been, you know, I might've like Erika, you know, for a moment, but otherwise I would have been in and I would have taken care of it, you know? So I think that. A really big part of it too. And then the final bit is. Not everybody is going to be for you.
So you may actually find somebody who isn't a fit for you. And so reaching a point where, um, you know, maybe after a lot of communication, maybe after back and forth, you're like, you know what, you're just, aren't my person. You're just not the right fit for my business. And that's okay too. And knowing when it's time to let somebody go and find somebody different, and then that's a whole other conversation as far as that process, but be open to the.
That's okay, too, that if you, you make the wrong hire, because I have done it several times, it's a part of that too, you know, or you grow into a different space. And so you need somebody with a different set of skills or whatever the case may be. Yeah, absolutely. And I know too. Yeah, I've definitely had people who've worked for me before and then, you know, it would just was not, it was not a long-term.
Fit. And I feel like that's where a lot of those going back to those sites systems and the processes, like it's helpful to have them in place so that when you have to bring somebody new in it shortens that timeframe. And, and then also, you know, it's like your business might get to a point where yeah.
Doesn't make sense to have a contractor and that, or that contractor doesn't want to become your employee and like, yeah, you have to, you have to shift roles or you have to do something different. But yeah, I definitely feel like I know for me personally, you know, I know that not everyone wants to have help.
I think that a lot of times they're. Is so much fear, like, like you already mentioned, like fear around getting help for lots of different reasons. Um, but that it doesn't have to be so terrifying. Um, and it can actually be really nice and really supportive. And now I'm like, I just can't even imagine. I, I would have to.
Removed so many elements of my business in order to not have a team anymore. And I don't know, like I, for me, I think, especially because entrepreneurship can be so lonely, especially when you're an online entrepreneur and you're like not at an office and mingling with people, like it is actually nice to have that support.
And even like when I was out of town last week, Worried, you know, I knew if something were to come through, like I could just forward it to you and it would be handled. And that way. A really great feeling. Yeah. I was thinking the same thing when you were talking. I was like, I can't imagine at this point, like it took me a minute, especially as a service provider myself.
So it'd be like, I deserve to ha I can have an assistant. I need, I need now and to start growing. And I can't imagine not having my team now. And, and also like being running an entire agency. I can take a week off and know that, and it's magic. It's like my favorite thing in the world to like go in my inbox and just see stuff answered and moved around and done.
And I'm like, all right, I'm going to go back to my movie now. Like, you know, so there's that part of it too, that like, you go through the hard stuff to get there, but then the benefit of it is like, once you seek into it, you're like, oh God, what can I, I don't know that I'll ever be able to have my business without somebody, because it's amazing to have that support because it is lonely and it's.
And so having somebody to even vent to sometimes and just, you know, but the, to fall back on is amazing. Yeah, it definitely, definitely is. Well, this has been awesome. Where can people learn more about you and get support and all of that? And of course, all of this will be in the show notes as well. Yeah, go ahead and share.
Yeah. So, um, my website address is biz magic, B I Z M a G I c.co C O. Um, and I'll have a little freebie, uh, at biz magic.co/Erika, um, where I will give some prompts for how you can hire somebody to kind of questions to ask in an interview. Sources, you can go to find them. Um, so you could do that and then, uh, yeah, you can find out about everything that we offer there.
Um, and I also have been hanging out more and more on Instagram and it it's more than just pictures of my cats, which is what it used to be. And that's, uh, at biz magic co on Instagram. Your, your cats though, are the real MVPs behind the scene. They love to help when you're working on my stuff and I love to see it.
It's so awesome. It's so awesome. Well, thank you again. This was super, super great having you, and you're such an asset to my business and I appreciate you and yeah, everyone go, go check out Patti and learn from her. And then. Treat yourself to some support of your own. Do it. Thank you, Erika. This has been awesome.
Yeah.
