Ep. 133: Honoring Indigenous Culture in Business w/ Tawny Cale
In this episode I talk to my friend Tawny Cale about how her business was born out of a desire to learn an art and skill that is a part of her heritage. Sister Beads started because she had been learning Indigenous beadwork and was beginning to get requests. Then she convinced 2 of her 4 sisters to join her to keep up with orders. She's also an outspoken activist for various causes that are close to her heart, and knows you don't have to be perfect to make a difference. In this episode she shares the difference between appreciation and appropriation and shares some great Native makers you can follow. This is a jam-packed episode and I know it's going to leave you feeling super inspired.
Tawny (Trottier) Cale is an enrolled member of the Standing Rock Sioux Tribe as well as a descendant of the Turtle Mountain Band of Chippewa and the Spirit Lake Nation. After graduating from Rugby High School, she earned a bachelors degree from Mayville State University and taught high school English for 1 year. Tawny previously served on 3 non-profit boards; 2 statewide and 1 local to Minot. Tawny is an avid beadwork artist and loves to share her culture with others. Tawny, her husband Tyrel, and their 4 children currently live in Great Falls, MT.
Links:
https://www.facebook.com/sisterbeads4
https://www.instagram.com/sisterbeads4/
https://www.tiktok.com/@sisterbeads4
Organizations and People mentioned in the episode:
Organizations:
Illuminative
National Native American Boarding School Healing Coalition
Artists:
Hillary Kempenich
Holly Young
Bunky EchoHawk
Steven Paul Judd
Sings in the Timber Photography
Authors:
Louise Erdrich
Denise Lajimodiere
Vine Deloria Jr.
Joy Harjo (Poet Laureate)
Fashion:
Bethany Yellowtail
Red Berry Woman
Lauren Good Day
49 DZine
NTVS
Wakage by Shauna
Beyond Buckskin
Beadwork/Quillwork:
Jamie Okuma
Elias Jade NotAfraid
Sweetgrass by Heather
Bear River Creations
JD Creations
Additional Links mentioned in this episode:
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Okay. Onto the episode. Welcome to this episode of the sell it sister podcast. I am so excited to bring to you my friend, Tani, kale, who is really incredible and not only does she have an amazing bead work business, but she is also utilizing her business as a way to help preserve indigenous culture. And in this episode, we talk a lot about the ways that she is doing that.
We talk about, um, some of the really important things to know about indigenous, uh, Traditions and, uh, especially how that relates to cultural appropriation versus appreciation when we are buying either native created or native inspired items. We also talk about activism and different ways that she has been an activist, especially as it relates to, um, indigenous rights and indigenous culture.
And just really a whole host of things. This, this interview is like a journey down many different paths. And we also, um, at the beginning share the story of how, of how we met, uh, which is something that I still, um, I feel really special and glad to be able to call Tanya friend and happy that we know each other.
And, uh, and I really hope that after you listen, you will check out her business called sister beads. And there is a huge list that she was generous enough to compile and share with me, um, for the show notes. So all sorts of lists of makers and information and resources and everything. Um, this, these show notes are just absolutely packed with goodness.
So be sure either as you're listening or after you're listening, um, to check those out, and this is such a great one to share with people, because I know that so many people do you have questions around cultural appropriation versus appreciation. So be sure to share this with your friends as well. So before we dive into the actual interview, I just want to tell you a little bit about who Tanya.
So Tawny Trottier kale is an enrolled member of the standing rock Sioux tribe, as well as a descendant of the turtle mountain band of Chippewa and the spirit lake nation. After graduating from rugby high school, she earned a bachelor's degree from Mayville state university and taught high school English for one year.
Tani previously served on three non-profit boards, two statewide, and one like one local to my not North Dakota. Tawny is an avid beadwork artist and loves to share her culture with others, Tawny, her husband Tyrrell and their four children currently live in great falls, Montana. So I know you're going to love it.
I know you're going to love her. Um, it's funny, the ways that mine and Tanya's, uh, life have overlapped both in past businesses and, uh, like current businesses and sort of the, a lot of the why behind what we do, what we do, even though we do it in separate ways. And the fact that. We are both. Well, I was married to a service member.
She is married to a service member and we've, we've always for various reasons, sort of been a little bit, um, of the odd ones out in some of the circles that we've run in. So yeah, I know, I know you're going to dig it and, uh, be sure to also share with me, um, on social, uh, Instagram, Erica Devin's consulting, I would love to hear your takeaways.
So as you're listening, you can screenshot post to stories. Um, tag me, tag her at sister beads and without further ado onto the episode. Hi, Tani. Welcome to the, sell it sister podcast. I am so, so, so excited to have you today. Hi Eric. I'm so glad to be here today. That's like, oh, this is just, I've been, I've been like really like giddy looking forward to this because I haven't actually.
Had like a face-to-face conversation with you in what feels like a billion years since not since Mexico. Yeah. So Tommy and I go way back to, it was September of 2015. Um, we met in Mexico on what was called a leadership incentive trip for the network marketing company that she and I were both leaders with.
And was that your first lit that you would have. Earned or Ghana. That was my second one because I brought my mother with me and my first one I brought my husband and then my goal was to meet the second one so I could bring my mother. Oh, that's so nice. Yeah, that is so that's so sweet. Um, yeah, it was actually, so we met, I had gone by myself to a yoga class.
Nobody else wanted to go with me. Everyone was day drinking and I was like, I want to get in a little bit of yoga before I start the day drinking. Um, we're at this re at the hard rock, hard rock, restart Mexico. I think so. Yeah. And, um, and you and your mom were the only other people there and struck up a conversation and then became Facebook friends.
The rest is history and neither of us are with that company any more or in that industry or anything. Uh, but I'm still, I, I am, I have no regrets because of those relationships that I made from my time there. Yeah, that's exactly right. I remember, um, same thing. I was doing the network marketing thing and it seemed like the right thing to do at the time, because I was a stay at home mom of at the time three kids.
I have four now. And, um, I remember walking into that yoga class to my mom and I, because we thought the same thing was when we should exercise a little bit before we start drinking and eating fries down by the water. Um, and what struck me about you first was that you were not in this mold that so many others work within the company.
And I was like, I like this person and I want to be their friend because. Um, as somebody, as a person of color, if you will, I also feel like, well, I'm not necessarily in that mold that you see. And so it was like, oh, look at this person. I want to be their friend. So I just, I remember that. And then, yeah, just what you said.
We became Facebook friends and I just thought, oh my gosh, I love this woman. I love what you do. It was so fun to follow you. And, um, I'm just glad that we've stayed in touch. And when you say 2015, Oh, my gosh, it hurts a little bit. I can't believe it was that long ago. I know. Right. So, so long ago and that I it's, I'm so glad that you said that about like, how, how you felt about me, because that was very much how I, obviously I'm not a woman of color, but like also feeling like the square peg in the round hole a bit, um, within that, that company.
And it's like, yeah, it can be really weird to be in an environment that, I mean, like, just like with many, many, uh, network marketing companies have like MLMs, like they're very like white Christian dominant. Like it's very weird. It's very weird. And when you're like, don't identify, like when you don't check all the boxes as.
The, I don't know like who the majority of the people are that you're with. It definitely feels very, um, awkward well, and it is, and it can be very intimidating and it, you know, when people mean well, but there's also, you know, what's, um, can be called micro-aggressions again and, you know, people need well.
Um, and they don't know. And whether it's because they don't know because they choose to not educate themselves or because they. I truly don't know. I mean, you don't know what you don't know. Um, and so I've, you know, I've found myself faced with many awkward conversations and like, oh, you're native. Oh, my cousins, brothers step uncle is native to do you know him?
Like, I mean, that's a real conversation and a real thing that people will say to you, just kind of trying to, to make that connection because they know heart to heart, face to face. It's hard to hard. So people are trying to find that connection there. And sometimes it's a, it's a real reach. Yeah.
Completely. Like I just, I just have to giggle because yeah. There's, I mean, that's us, it just doesn't surprise. Just thinking back to like the, the people who like the culture of the company and the people I'm like, oh, that's so not surprising at all. Not at all. Nope. Uh, oh my gosh. Well, we, we won't go down that rabbit hole yet.
I think we could circle back. Cause I do know at the end there was like a, they try to do like a diversity panel with like the fabrics, but it was very like, it was very cringe. I had, I had heard from somebody that like, we know that it was, uh, like they were trying to appeal to like a more diverse clientele, but it was very like in this weird appropriately.
I dunno. It was very, very strange. It must've been after I left. Yeah. I think it was, yeah, I think it was after you and I had both laughed like maybe like a year after we had left, but, um, anyhow today I, well, I very specifically wanted to have you on for the episode that. Right before American Thanksgiving.
Um, because there is so much heaviness like around that holiday, uh, especially in indigenous communities and for good reason and so much misunderstanding. And one thing I love about you and is not just your business while I love your business, we're going to talk about that and talk about cultural appropriation versus appreciation.
One other thing that I've enjoyed is following your activism journey and, uh, especially like, as you have lived in places and you are married to the military, as I used to be, that is often like, um, you know, we're, we're, you are not represented and you are not necessarily like automatically welcome. So I wanted to be sure that we.
Really talked about that because it's, it's important to me to really highlight, uh, people who are trying to bring about change, but doing it through their business and sort of like what their business affords them to be able to do. Like whether that's extra money or extra time or resources or, or anything like that.
So I would love to know, did you, since you run sister beads and how many sisters do you have? So I have three sisters. I'm one of four I'm number two of four is what my, my number is. Gotcha. Gotcha. So when you, like, what, what came first? Was it the wanting to learn beating, or was it the wanting to have. Uh, business around beating or something else entirely.
So definitely the wanting to learn. And I will say with full confidence that the business was sort of an accident. Um, it was not my intention to actually start a business. And, um, but I'm glad that I did ultimately, but so I'll, I'll, I'll back it up here a little bit. Um, I grew up not on the resume. But it was I'm an off reser.
And even though I am an enrolled member of the standing rock, Sioux tribe, I've only been to standing rock a handful of times in my life. I grew up more, mostly around the spirit lake nation and then up in the turtle mountains in North Dakota. And, uh, when my grandma passed away, when I was 10 years old, uh, my family, we weren't really big powers.
We weren't really very traditional, which again, going back further sort of stems from the fact that my three of my four grandparents are residential school survivors. So they really weren't given a chance to be proud of who they were. Um, and they deliberately kept language and culture and, and, and stuff from family.
So I have had some. On my own, because again, my immediate family does not know a whole lot. We really didn't, um, participate if you will. And when I was in college, my husband was actually taking a native American studies class.
I mean, he wasn't my husband at the time we were just dating, but he asked me, Hey, there's a Powell this weekend and I can get extra credit for my native American studies class. If I go to the Palau, do you want to go to the Palau? And I said, yes, I haven't been to a Paolo in years and years select let's go.
So we went to the powwow and we, um, made it in time for the one o'clock granted. And the drum started playing and the Eagle staff and the flags started coming and grand entry started. And I just started balling, could not like ugly, crying to the point where he looks at me and says, do we need to go, are you okay?
Cause it just, it brought back so many memories and, um, just family and, oh my goodness. I can't even fully describe it. But then after that, we kind of went down to check out the vendors. And of course I was struck by all the beautiful bead work. And again, we were in college. So at the time I probably had like a hundred dollars in my checking account and beadwork quite frankly, is very expensive.
Um, which rightfully so, because I understand that, you know, the supplies and the time and the skill that it takes, but looking at it, then I couldn't afford. That as a college student now, there was no way I could afford it. And so I made it my goal to learn how to do bead work someday. Um, and it wasn't until 2016 that I met somebody who was able to teach me bead work.
Her name is Dr. Denise Lasha muddier. Um, and she taught me the basics of beading and then everything else was just trial and error and kind of word of mouth was, you know, family found out that I knew how to beat it. Oh, we make me a lanyard. Oh, will you do this for me? Oh, somebody said you bead and I couldn't keep up with it on my own.
So I bullied my sisters, like, okay, you need to learn how to do this. You need to learn. And so I finally was able to teach my older sister and then finally a little bit later taught my youngest sister. Um, but my, my number three does not know how to beat a yet. Sure. So we'll maybe incorporate that into the business.
Somehow, someday I need a business plan. Do you know anybody who can, um, I might know somebody, I might know somebody who does that for me. Yeah. Oh gosh. That's that's really cool that you were able to get them on board as well, too. To be able to pitch in and help you do they, are they glad now? Like I, you know, I'm sure you have some of that, like that big sister energy and stuff to be like, come on, we're going to do this.
And I know you have like a really, and I mean, that's in the best way, like a really like strong, like convicting personality or like, okay. But are they, are they like, how do they really like that you kind of got them involved? Are they glad that they know the skills now, too? I mean, I'm going to speak for them full confidently and say, yes, I think they are.
Um, it's just funny, the different styles that we have. So I need directions. So like, I want to talk to my customers and say, you know, what, what do you want? What style, what colors, you know, send me a couple of pictures of some things you like, because while I will never copy another artist, it gives me a sense of what you like.
So I can kind of mesh something together. Um, whereas my older sister. She needs to make what she wants to make. If somebody gives her too much direction. Okay. Like I want this, this and this. She has such a more difficult time with that. She needs to be able to just create on her own. Um, and then my younger sister, I would say she's kind of a mix.
She she's deaf. She hasn't, hasn't had the time to participate in as much, but, um, we're actually working on that right now. We're, I'm trying to get her way more involved. Um, simply just to help stay on top of orders, because it's great to have so many orders, but you know, these hands only have so much time.
Yeah. Yeah. I feel like that, that is one thing with a, like a, a product that is a handmade product is yeah, it's just, it's so much different than something that can be mass produced because it just takes. Time, like, it's the, it's the expertise and like the, the time and that skill. And it's just like, yeah, you can't, you're not a robot.
You're not a machine, so, oh yeah, sure. It makes sense. Have any of your kids started to learn as well? Like are they, are they into it? Um, so my oldest daughter, I have gotten her to create a pair of earrings before. Um, cause I did it with her girl scout troop and um, I think I did it twice with her girl scout troop, and I've been to talk to her classes before and then same with my son's.
Um, my younger son who is eight right now, I've gotten him to loom bead a little bit. Um, cause that's kind of a little bit more simple for him and, and he's done it a little bit, but. And he's never finished a project. Um, he's very, you know, he can sit for so long, but he's my bouncer he's up and down. So it's, it's a little harder for him.
Um, but they see me do it. And it's funny because I have noticed in some of my daughter's writing prompts, she's a sixth grader. So when I go through her homework, um, she wrote something in there and it must've been used visual cues or something. And she wrote, um, sunlight inside a room, uh, something, something, my mom at her beating table.
And it was, I mean, it was so cute and they just, they know like they know that this is my space and this is my room. They know what I'm doing. And so we talk about it a lot, I guess, but as for creating something, I'm hoping that they'll get out a little bit more on board, but there's always that boundary between like, well, I want you to learn and you have to learn.
So. Yeah, yeah. Not wanting to like push her away or like, feel like, oh my gosh, I have to do it now. I'm like, I don't want to do it. So yeah, exactly. That makes sense. And for any of that, I know, right. For any of your older living relatives, what do they think about, uh, like all of this, right. Like learning the language and beating and have any of them tried to also go back and learn anything that was lost.
That is important to them. Um, so luckily like with the language on my. My paternal grandmother's side. Um, she grew up speaking Lakota Dakota and her siblings are, there are only three left and one, maybe there's only two left. Oh, I'm so sorry. But there's only a handful of them left. And one of them who recently passed away about a year ago, um, they spoke fluent Dakota.
And so they knew that language is, that was the language spoken in their home. And then they learned English when they went to boarding school. Um, so they knew, they know that we do bead work and, um, I was at an event and my, um, she'd be my great aunt, but I just call her auntie. So my auntie dynamite is there and she asked me if I had brought any beadwork and I didn't.
Um, I said, oh, I really, I would like to have a, you know, like a pair of earrings from you. I'll buy them from you. And I didn't have anything. And. In our culture, if you will, that I'm learning is when an elder asks something of you, you, you deliver like you have to kind of come through. So I literally gave her the earrings that I was wearing.
Um, and she tried to pay me for them. And I said, no, I was going to trade her some stories. I wanted her to tell me some stories of my grandma. Um, so, so they, so they know. Um, and I know like, you know, my dad still attends a lot of events and he's really proud of us in the work that we do. And so he tells relatives and, um, so we've, um, had relatives, I guess, reach out to us as the best way to say it and have, make some things for them.
But they also do know other beaters that, you know, might be in their immediate family. Um, so it's nice. We try to share as much as we can. I have a great aunt on my mom's side that. Uh, reached out to me and about the, these beating packets that I do. And so she was really excited to work with me about that for the library that she works at.
Um, so yeah, they, they know and they know to ask and I'm glad to help whenever I can. Really cool. I love that. And I would also love to hear about some of the things that you have done. I know you've because of military life moved a few times in the last few years, but I know that there have also been like in each place where you lived, you've done activism in the local community around native issues.
I know, um, recently I watched the, the. Where you were interviewed on your local news, um, for the event that you helped to put on. But I also know that you have spoken in front of elected officials. I know that you have gotten more diverse books into schools. And so, yeah. Why don't you talk a little bit about, about that?
Because I think that it can feel really hard to actually bring about positive change and like one person couldn't possibly. Actually make an impact unless you're like Oprah level, but like you're not Oprah level. Not yet, not yet one day, one day you will, but you know, but you, you have, and I think that that is, is really cool, especially because, you know, I, again, like with military communities, it's like, you're moving and all of a sudden you're like, oh, now I don't know anyone.
Like I have to find a whole new network. I might not be welcome here. And, um, you know, people might not like the, you know, in quotes the agenda that I'm, that I'm pushing. Um, and I know like that, that can be really hard and much like with network marketing. The military spouse community is not always welcoming and friendly, especially to people who don't check their preferred boxes either.
This is a podcast. And so I wish that your listeners could see my face right now because shit is giving away everything. Yes. Yes. I, my face has the same problem. It is. Yeah. That's like a whole, that's a whole other world of like, not, well, not being welcoming. I don't know, being very closed it's that's, it's very, um, it was very challenging for me, so I can only imagine how much more challenging it was for you and you have four kids on top of it.
So like, I'm sure there's a lot of people who would think, like, how do you, how do you do it all? How do you make it happen? But like really what is like, like how have you been able to do these things and what have been some of those things that you're really proud that you've accomplished. When it comes to keeping your, your heritage alive through your activism.
So I really had felt, um, that I was missing something like, I really wasn't connected with, um, my culture, if you will. And in 2016, I don't know if you know this. It was kind of a big big year for our country. Um, but it was also a big deal in my home state of North Dakota, where, um, even though years of work had already been happening, that 2016 was when things really came to a head down in standing rock regarding, um, the Dakota access pipeline.
And so as a stay at home mom, because I've been a stay-at-home mom for my, my oldest daughter is 11, um, she's 11 years old. And so my quick stay at home mom. Has turned into over 11 years. And so I was at home and I'm watching the news, you know, cause standing rock is, this is my tribe. You know, this is not some obscure thing on the news.
Like this is my tribe. This is, this is my relatives. These are my people. And it w I. Got so frustrated watching the news and watching, you know, who they were talking to and things people were saying, and the horrible comments that were coming out of neighbors and, you know, people I'd grown up with seeing these just really terrible things coming out.
And I just decided like I can only rage clean my bathrooms so many times during the day I have to take this energy and do something with it because I went to college to be a high school English teacher. Um, oh really? Yeah.
Those teachers, we're all, we're all a little crazy, but that was involved in speech and theater. And so public speaking is not a big deal for me. I'm, I'm not worried about messing up because I mess up a lot. Um, and I'm not shy. And so I just wanted to be able to lend my voice to things because I really understand that a lot of, uh, A lot of other indigenous people get really intimidated with public speaking because you're really walking this, this line, if you will, you're kind of living in two worlds and you're almost kind of code switching.
So there's like scholarly speak. That's more accepted, um, by the majority. And then there's, you know, not, I guess that's the way to put it. And so I felt like, you know, I'm a really good public speaker and I can lend my voice to these things. That mean something to me personally, and I can help people and I want to be able to help people.
Cause the last thing that I want is for this world to come about where my kids don't get to be proud of who they are. Um, you know, I it's my responsibility, you know, I can't shelter them from the world. I have to prepare them for what's to come. And one of the that's super important to me. Making sure they know who they are and they get to be proud of that.
Um, so I'm doing my best to model that for them. And that has looked like, um, joining some boards. I served on the North Dakota human rights coalition. Um, I served on a board called, um, nurse Dakota native vote, uh, because there are a lot of, um, social issues that indigenous people face today that the general public doesn't even understand.
Um, and they're passing policies that directly affect native people and, oh, but we didn't know. Well, if you knew anything about native people, then maybe you would have known, like for example, North Dakota tried to pass a law a few years ago that in order to vote, you had to have a, um, on your driver's license, your physical address, it would not accept a PO box.
If you live within the boundaries of the reservation, you don't have a physical address. All you have is a PO box because that is what was laid out in the treaties. Oh, so on a lot of reservations, there's not even road signs, you know, you don't know, oh, this is fifth avenue. It's just a road. So people don't have addresses.
So all of a sudden, two weeks before a midterm election, they pass this law. Thousands of tribal members couldn't vote in this election. So that's deliberate voter disenfranchisement aimed at native American voters. So just stuff like that is so, oh, well, well get it, get it, get your address, get your ID.
It's not that simple. Two weeks before an election, thousands of people need an ID, you know, it's, it's ridiculous. So, um, I guess just being able to bring light to those issues, because lots of, you know, lots of people. I don't know that about reservations and the physical addresses versus a PO box. Yeah.
And I feel like that is one of those instances where, uh, if you are in integrity and working to be inclusive and that was brought to your attention, you would be like, wow, we've really screwed up. Let's fix this and make it right. And if you're not, and you're making excuses, it's like, oh, that is just, um, deliberate intent where you're.
You know, kind of like, I feel like it's it's, those are the things that really like get my goat because it's like, no, you know what you're doing? And you're just pretending like, well, we're doing it for these, you know, voter security voter fraud, blah, blah, blah. It's like, no, no, no, no, no. You know what you're doing?
You know what you know. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And I know, so the, the recent, um, event that you just did was for orange shirt day, right. That, that you helped to put on. So why don't you talk a little bit about that? Because while I know that a lot of, uh, my listeners probably do know what that is. And interestingly, I work with a lot of Canadians, so I feel like they actually are more familiar with shirt day than Americans, but why don't you explain a little bit about that?
The the event and just like your work around that, especially because it is really significant to you with what you already spoke about with your, your, yeah, absolutely. So, um, I believe it was at the end of may, um, in Kamloops, um, British Columbia, uh, they found 215 bodies, um, in graves threw out the, um, yard land.
What am I trying to say on the grounds of this former residential school and the reason, you know, while that's horrible and devastating, I mean, 215 graves or bodies. Um, they, that school had only records showing that there should have been like 52. So they said, you know, they, they should have only found this many.
And in reality, they found far more than that. So. This was not breaking news for Indian country because our people, our relatives knew these things, you know, they, they know these things. They know that, you know, when these children were sent to residential schools, by any means necessary, you know, um, some were quote unquote sent voluntarily.
Well, if they weren't sent the government threatened to withhold rations from their family, um, some were just literally rounded up. Um, you know, these agents went out and just took children and brought them to school. So it was this really terrible thing, uh, to be just take, can you imagine just being taken from your family or just have somebody come and just take your child and, you know, Oh, yeah, I can't, it makes me sick to my stomach to get too far into the details.
Cause as a, as a mother of four children, it just, oh, I can't even imagine. But, um, anyway, and so the numbers just kept rising. As you know, finally it was, you know, we got the world's attention about, you know, this is a real thing. This is something that happened. This is not, this is not ancient history.
There are people alive today that are survivors of residential school, you know, not graduates of resident survivors of residential schools. And, um, so to really bring that to people, to have them know and understand that, you know, there are long-term consequences to those actions, to what happened to these people, to what they went through affects today and how indigenous people are today.
Um, so our event was mostly aimed at healing because again, this is not new. This is not brand new information. This is information that we've known, but now that we have people's attention, we're hoping that, you know, we can start that healing process that we can inform people to let them know this is what happened.
This is how we're dealing with it today. Will you help us heal? And instead of just pretending like it didn't happen. Um, so I guess that's what our event was really aimed at. So we had, um, we started with a pipe ceremony and then we had some speakers and then we did, um, it took us about two miles, um, of a March.
And we stopped at four major intersections in our town and they saying honor songs at each one of those intersections. Um, and so it was really, it was really great. It was just a time for healing. Um, we let people share stories if they felt comfortable with that. Um, obviously we had some, um, Mental health care providers.
And then some people who would be willing to pray with people, um, just cause we didn't, you know, re we didn't want to risk retraumatizing people. Um, in case anybody wanted to share, who's maybe never shared their story. You know, lots of elders don't want to share their story. You know, the, to them it's in the past, they don't want to talk about it, or they don't want their families to know what happened to them.
You know, they don't want to share out loud, which I understand. I mean, I don't want to share my trauma with my kids, so why, why would they, so we understand that and we can be respectful of that, um, all while still trying to promote healing though, um, within our communities. Yeah. I, I love that. You, I love that you said it was focused on healing because I do.
I think that that is such. An important part of activism. And, um, that I think is, is easy to go. Uh, unlike, you know, it's, it's can be really overlooked is the, the, not always like, it doesn't always have to be like rallies or, um, you know, being kind of loud while that is important. Um, and, and I'm all for that, but that there is that other side of, yeah, like there is real trauma, there is like real healing that, that needs to be done.
Well, one of the things that I thought was super interesting was that reporter that we talked to, um, he asked us why we had chosen the particular location that we were, and I had learned, cause again, this is not my, my community. I just moved here. I'm still pretty new. But we chose that park because it was right across the street from an old school that is no longer a school it's now, um, it's now apartment buildings or apartments or whatever inside there, but that used to be the Indian school.
So it didn't matter where in town you lived, if you were indigenous, that is the school that you were sent to. And just because it wasn't a residential school, it was a day school, same pedagogy, same kind of terrible tactics. And I met two, um, elders that attended school there and immediately they share their stories.
And I mean, punch to the gut of how some of the things they experienced there. So right here in the middle of this town, people don't even know the history of that building and what it stood for. So that's why, again, that's why we picked that particular location. So interesting, even as you say that I'm like, cause I grew up part of where I grew up was in Phoenix and we there's actually like a very main road, um, in town called Indian school road.
And I know it, there's not a school that, is there any more, but now that you're saying that I'm like, I bet that. I bet that's actually what that was like. I think it was long gone before I, I lived there, but I know from older people like saying like, oh yeah, there used to be like an Indian school there.
And it never like truly, I didn't actually know about residential schools until a few years ago. And it was through true crime podcasts, um, like truly. And it was like the whole, they were talking about like the whole history and like people from the church. Yeah. Literally coming and just being like, you're an unfit parent and taking children, which I know like is still a thing that happens.
And it's just awful. It's actually still happening in the 21st century. It's just happening through child protective services. Now the job that the church originally was doing, um, an actually the, um, Iqua the Indian child welfare act. Truly under attack in our country right now. And, um, I don't know if it's gone before the Supreme court, I think it has, or it's going to where they are truly bringing tribal sovereignty into question.
And depending on the outcome of this case, it could affect tribes really negatively. Uh, cause they're arguing that, um, it's unconstitutional because it's based on race and you know, you can't base race because that that's, you know, that's wrong, you can't do that. So if that goes through how many, basically everything with tribal law.
It's based on race it's based on need. Um, you know, and whether you want to argue what race is, a social social construct versus if tribes or political groups, you know, that's neither here nor there, but it would really truly change how, um, the, the nation to nation relationships that this country has with its 574 tribal nations.
Um, so scary. Yeah. It's, it's terrifying, absolutely terrifying for advocates that have been working on that for years. You know, I only know, um, a brief, you know, what I've been able to educate myself on, but there are people who have been fighting this battle for years and it is truly crazy. Um, there's no other way to describe it.
Yeah. That's uh, oh my gosh, I thank you. Thank you for mentioning that, because that was something like that. Like. I somehow haven't seen mention of, but definitely want to, um, look into, because yeah, that could have really, really disastrous, uh, ramifications. So, oh my gosh, everybody, please vote just a reminder.
Oh my gosh. Your voice and vote. Yeah. It's so important. Um, I, I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure all my listeners are fairly, fairly down with voting and, uh, as long as they know me, actually today, it's funny. It's like it's election day and I had this panic that like we had forgotten. I was like, oh my God, am I did we?
And my husband's like, no, it's other cause he's actually helping, like right now with a campaign in another county, um, And, but I ha I love voting so much. I like had like a mini panic. Like, did we not get, did I, oh my God. Like, yeah, it's so really nerdy thing, but it's okay if I'm going to be money for anything voting.
Yes. It's election day. I'm here too. And I have not turned my ballot in and I panicked because I, oh my gosh, I can't mail it. So now after I talk with you, I am driving to the office so I can go turn that thing in, because it is so important. Your local elections are where you can really facilitate the more change, great that people have an opinion on, you know, the, the national stage and whatnot, but seriously people, your local elections, your city council, people, your mayor, your governor, like those are the ones that you can truly affect the most change.
And I think that's what, you know, people get so nervous about getting into politics. I was, I mean, I didn't think myself as. Political, if you will. Um, but I just, I'm just that person who shows up if they're going to have not something that I, you know, oh, I'm, I'm interested in that. Or I think I have an opinion on that.
I'll go to that meeting. I mean, it's harder now, you know, given these unprecedented times, if you, yes. Yes. Um, but previously, I mean, I, I'm a meeting attender. I am there, you know, that has been one of the fortunate things about being a stay at home. Mom is, um, I make the point to carve out time for stuff like that.
Um, I'm trying, I just lost my train of thought, but local election voting them. Yes. It really, it really matters. And yeah. And I am, I do like, even just how, um, I feel like a lot of times you have people, it goes back into the thing of like, people feel like they don't matter. And so, or they have to be perfect or they have to know all the things.
And you're like, no, I, I screw up all the time and I don't know all the things, but like I still show up and it, it matters and because it does, it definitely does exactly in the more that I got. Um, I mean, I don't want to make it sound like I'm with like, being an important person, cause that is by far not the case, but the more that I was getting involved, um, in some of my activism, um, work before we moved, it was interesting to share space with people where, I mean, bless their hearts.
How did you get here? Yeah. I don't even know how you managed to get both your shoes on drive your vehicle here and find the right room that we were meeting it. I mean, truly some of the, the characters that are in charge and are making some of the big decisions. It is, it was a little unnerving at times.
Um, so that is one thing that, yeah, anybody who is, is nervous about even as a business owner, um, I get that people, you know, they, they, they want to separate that or they need to separate that. I don't, I suppose, I mean, I don't really post a whole lot of political things on my business page, but I think it's pretty, fairly obvious, um, on my stance on some things.
And if you are not in alignment with, with my views, then that's okay. There are lots of other beaters out there and I'm sure. Find another one fairly easily. So that's okay. Yeah. Yeah. I'm so I'm so glad you mentioned that you do have some really hilarious tic-tacs if you're listening and you are that person be sure to follow her account because you have some really funny ones, but I feel like, yeah, it's a, that's always sort of, my stance is like, if, if our values, like if they don't align, um, or they're, you know, diametrically opposed, like there are other people you can hire, it's fine.
Like it's, you know, it's, we, we don't need to work together, but like, yeah, I'm not shying away from the things that are important to me. Um, and so speaking of like brands, I want you to talk about your, your business and like how people can find you and how can they can support you. And also really understanding like appropriation versus appreciation.
Yeah. Anyone who, yeah. Anyone who, um, sees any of like my new branding photos, I have a hat on in some of them that you beat it custom for me, and I love it. Love it, love it. So very much. Um, and I, and I know like it's something where I'm like, okay, I just, I like need a, double-check just for my own peace of mind.
Like, this is cool if I own this. Right. Like I'm not like, yes, absolutely. And you're like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, um, but I think that this is something that, you know, it, it happens where as people start to be more aware of things like closed practices, like ceremonial closed practices and, um, you know, artistry and like cultural heritage it's, you know, we want to be sure that we are doing the right thing, which is actually.
Honoring what is for us and what is not for us. So why don't you talk a little bit about that? So thank you for that statement that you just made about what is for us and what is not. Um, I think that is where a lot of people just stop. They don't even go beyond that. If they want it, they're going to take it.
Um, so for the people that kind of stop and take a step back and have the wherewithal to do that, that is so wonderful. Um, so when I wanted bead work, um, years ago, before I knew how to be, I didn't know where to go. You know, the Powell was only in town this many times, where do I buy B work from? And so my very first pair of beaded earrings that I wore were from, um, just a store, like just a retail chain store.
And that's what I wore. That's all I had access to. And, uh, I see that you see that so much with, you know, things that are native inspired, native inspired, you know, it's this whole aesthetic that, you know, people are trying to go for. And it is so exhausting as an indigenous person to see people with. Just cheaply mass produced prints and bead work and whatnot.
Like it's so painful because our people were literally prohibited from our practices. And, um, it wasn't until like the 1970s that the native American, um, religious freedom act was passed. So like before of the 1970s, like people couldn't even pray legally in the way that they were. So all of a sudden you have, you know, I don't know if I can say this or not, but all of a sudden you have all these white women who I, I was going to get like beeped in sensors, but all of a sudden, you know, you have these like white women who, you know, want to wear buckskin and fringe and these boots and, you know, well, again, the culture that you're appropriate.
Wasn't allowed to do that. We were made to feel ashamed of our traditions and our customs. Um, however, there, so that is appropriation. That is cheaply made mass produced step that is not made by an indigenous person by an indigenous artist, by an indigenous owned company. Um, it's, it's all of that yucky cheap stuff.
Um, but appreciation would be a non native person buying directly from an indigenous artist from an indigenous cone business. Um, so that's where you really get the appreciation because you know what? Yes. Buy for me, support my small business, you know? Um, hat that you made or that I made for you. It's like, okay, here's this money.
I turn it around and essentially buying my husband a pair of running shoes with it. You know, it's how you can support small businesses, you know, on top of, um, me as a, as a native American artist, I guess if those two thoughts kind of go together, I lost no, no, no. I left that and then, but even more so. I hope that makes sense appreciation versus appropriation, you know, buy from an inspired, native, not native inspired.
Um, but that's actually also a legal is there are, you know, people are always out to meet money if you will, off of cultures that are not theirs, those culture vultures, we call them. Um, but this is one of the things I looked up to make sure, but the Indian arts and craft act of 1990, um, is literally a truth in marketing, advertising law.
And this is straight from the department of interior. So I apologize. Cause I'm going to read it to you cause it's really important. I think, um, But it's a truth in marketing, advertising law that prohibits misrepresentation in the marketing of Indian art and craft products within the United States, it is illegal to offer or display for sale, um, in a manner that falsely suggest that it is Indian produced an Indian product or the product of a particular tribe.
A first time violation, um, you can have $250,000 in fines and a five-year prison sentence. If a business violates that they can pay up to, um, a million dollars in fines, they can be prosecuted and fined up to a million dollars. So, wow. One of the fun things I'm going to use fun loosely here. Things about being on Tik TOK is I am connecting with a lot of other bead artists and.
We'll call you out. If you are a non-native person now, beadwork does not belong to indigenous people. Only lots of other cultures bead all over the world. However, there are certain designs that are most definitely indigenous to north America, and pretty obvious if you will. So there have been beaters that are creating these designs and profiting off of them, and they are very clearly native American designs.
Um, and even that, I don't even care to use that term because that sort of creates this pan Indian generalization, because, you know, like I said earlier, there's 574 tribal nations. That's 574 languages, 574 traditions. Um, you know, produce ceremonial protocols, so many different things. Um, But yeah, what they're doing is not only unethical, but very illegal, actually.
That is so interesting. I I've never, I've never heard of that. And that's, I, I would be curious on how, um, it's in for like how actively it's enforced, because yeah. That's, I would imagine that like H and M and forever 21. Walmart or not getting penalized for. Yeah. So what really sucks about this is that the loophole is that if you are marketing your things as native inspired, that's why I said if you know, native inspired or native style, um, that should actually be a really red flag as a consumer.
Because again, what we just talked about, you know, what does native American mean? You know, what are you talking about? The Navajo, the Denae people. Are you talking about the Lakota people? Are you talking about Anishinaabi? Um, the Cree matey, the, your Winnebago, who? I don't even, I can't even think of any other tribes right now, but, but who are you talking about?
They all have different styles. So just saying something as native American style, that doesn't mean anything. It doesn't mean anything to somebody who truly is an indigenous person, I guess. But yeah, and it doesn't in that law doesn't even include a literary works films, audio recordings, mascots, educational workshops is also not protected in there.
So that means that there are people who, you know, um, they run sweat lodges or they run ceremonies and they charge people to come to their ceremonies. And they're not native. They're not indigenous. They have no, you know, they, they Googled how to Sundance and that's the only teaching that they have, but it's not illegal.
It's highly unethical, but it is not illegal for them to do that. So, so many. So many ups and downs and red flags and zigzags and yeah. Yeah. Oh my gosh. What just layers of nightmare. Just, you know, deep, deep, deep, just awful. Um, that, that is so interesting though. So thank you. Thank you for sharing all of that.
Cause I, I was so unaware that that was even a thing in our, in our country. I'd never heard of that before, but I will say like things now with like tick-tock Instagram at sea, it does feel. Easier to be able to find indigenous makers. So you are like all of I'll have all of the links to you in the show notes, but if you look up sister beads on any of the platforms, you can find you and then see what you have either ready to purchase or can do custom orders as well.
But who are some other indigenous makers we're also going to include, I'll have a whole list, um, in the show notes as well, but who are some other ones that you like that you think that people should check out? Um, so on Tik TOK, one of my favorite beat artists that I follow her handle is at Lenny bead hands.
And she does just crazy awesome, um, beadwork suit, you know, very contemporary, very modern, but still, you know, with, uh, a traditional twist, I suppose. Um, she's a great one to follow. I follow, um, I don't even know how to say it. Native Philomena is one. Oh. It's Odie O w a Ottowa bear creations. I think so. I mean, you can literally just search, you know, bead talk or, um, bead artists or something, and you can see lots of native creators on there.
So I'm on Tik TOK, um, at sister beats for I'm on Instagram. I think that's also sister bees for, and then right now my Facebook page is just called sister beads. I don't have an website yet, but it is in the making. Uh, cause we get asked a lot. You know, what products do you have on hand? What do you have on hand?
And while I do have a few things, uh, we mostly work through custom orders. Uh, so people contact us and tell us, you know, I would like this and this and these colors and then we create it for them. Um, most of it is done by me, but obviously with the sister beads, um, my sisters are available to help with things, um, as they are able to.
Um, and I guess. For us, the reason that I called it sister beads and not like Tani's creations or beads Litani was because for me, my whole journey of reclaiming my culture and learning more about my heritage was not just for me. I mean, this isn't just my family history. It belongs to my sisters. So they own it just as much as I do.
And I want them to be as proud of it, you know, as I am. So Tara to shell and Trista. Yeah. We're all, all teasing. Um, you know, they, I wanted them to have that opportunity. And so hopefully I can do a lot of the heavy work and be able to give it to them. Um, and then same thing for, for my kids. Um, but I.
Awesome transplant was sending these times. These times are not meant for high brain capacity. Wow. Like pandemic brain is a real thing. And then you have like mom brain on top and it's just a whole and business owner brain it's too much. It's too much thinking. I know. I keep, I keep looking over at like, oh yeah, I'm good.
I have earrings like ready to go on the stand to be kind of peeking at them. And, um, yeah. I, I really love it. I've loved. See, I brought up Lenny earlier because she's the one who does this on the, on the clip and the embroidery hoop. Oh my gosh. It saved my hands. I had no idea that. You know, it would make things so much easier.
I love it. And I'm so grateful for finding that tip on Tik TOK. Um, that's really cool because I really want to echo what you said was yeah. With social media. It is, it's so easy to find people. And I love that. I love being able to connect with people and see what other people are making and how they're making it because, okay.
That's great. It's. But how did you do that? Yeah. And especially when, you know, we can't really get together. If somebody across the country being able to share that with people, I just think it's so beautiful and I'm so thankful. Cool. It is. It is. I, I like sharing, sharing, like information and the how to, and like making things easier for people like that's.
Yeah. It's, it's my whole jam. Like, it's why I love offering this podcast because I want to make it easier for people. Cause you know, the easier it is, like the more success we can, all we can all have. So I love it. Yes. There's enough to go around and I will also say like, I know we're at time. Um, you're aware, like, obviously people can't see you, but you're wearing your, my sisters, our warriors shirt, which I know doesn't just speak to your, your immediate family.
Like that is for more like all, all of your turtle island, sisters. And so is there this like, feeling of like it's sister beads? Like, I don't know, at least from the outside, it's just bringing it back to like the activism and, and like reclaiming your culture and, and that knowledge, like, if it feels, I get this sense that like what you do, like you, you always have this greater purpose behind what you do.
And like, it's like that giving a voice for the voiceless, like missing and murdered indigenous women and children and two-spirit people and like, like who don't have that voice. I'm sure someone's PE some people would say ignorantly, like it's just beads. It's just jewelry, but it's like, no it's, but it's more like, it's, it's a voice for people who, uh, tried to have their voice eradicated.
So I think it's really awesome that you do what you do. And I hope people are really inspired to purchase from you and to just use their own voice, like through their platform or whatever it is they do. Because even if, even if you only have a hundred eyeballs on you, like that's a hundred people who you can educate and inform about things that you maybe wouldn't have learned about otherwise.
Yeah, thank you for saying that. I want to touch on what you said a little bit ago. So one of the wonderful things is, so I actually don't like to wear super big beaded earrings, which is great. I love making them, I love making them. Um, but I prefer things that are a little bit smaller, but it is really important to me when I am out and I am and doing events and I'm visiting with people that I am wearing.
My beadwork that I wearing a ribbon skirt that I am. Indigenizing that space, if you will. Um, and one of a photographer that I follow on Instagram called sings in the timber photography, he has a great series that he did called indigenizing spaces. And that I, I really took that to heart and I just, you know, anytime that I can show up and, and bring that representation, I just think it's so important and I, you know, encourage others to do so.
You know, if you're interested in learning how to bead, find someone, find someone, you know, it is, it is with the internet and you can find people. You don't have to just be limited to like what you can watch on YouTube. You couldn't connect with a person. Um, if you don't have somebody within your immediate circle, you don't find somebody to teach you that.
I have some videos on YouTube about how to create two different pairs of earrings. Um, so you can start there if you're. You know, if you don't know where to go. So go to YouTube and just Google sister beads in there. There are two different videos that you can watch, but I just really would like to encourage anybody who's interested in beadwork R and R you know, wants to know or get a feel for what it's like working with all those tiny bees.
Like I have those videos available, but find someone, find someone and learn, take the time to do it. I it's, you won't regret a second of it. It'll be worth it. Right. Yeah, I love that. Well, I want to be respectful of your time, so thank you. I know you, and I want to make sure get that ballot drop out. So, so thank you so much.
I really, really, really appreciate this. And, um, and again, all the links are going to be in the show notes. So be sure to check those out when you are done listening and thank you again. Yeah. Pilama yeah. Thank you. I'm grateful for you. Thank you so much for having me on here today. Yeah. I'm grateful for you too.
