Ep. 132: Building Your Confidence to Sell w/ Nicole Kalil
Feeling confident is such an important part of running a thriving business. While nobody is 100% confident 100% of the time, the good news is that there are things we can all do to build our own confidence. In this interview with Nicole Kalil, she shares the 5 most common confidence derailers, and the 5 best confidence builders. It's so refreshing to know that we don't have to be perfect or "killing it" to grow our confidence in order to show up more bravely for ourselves and our businesses. This episode is packed with info you can start using right away in your life and business. Enjoy!
Link: Website: www.nicolekalil.com IG: @nicolemkalil LinkedIn: @nicolekalil
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Okay. Go to bit dot L Y forward slash goodbye. Hey girl, get it now. So you don't forget. And then enjoy the episode on this episode of salat sister. I have brought on Nicole to talk about confidence and what gets in the way of confidence and also how you can build confidence. And I know that this is super important when it comes to sales and marketing and we touch on it towards the end of our conversation.
But confidence is really, really crucial as a step that enables us to feel okay with showing up. Telling people, Hey, the thing I have is awesome and here's why you should pay me money for it. So it's kind of like the step that happens before, before a lot of the rest of it. So I know you're going to absolutely love this episode.
And learn so much. This was such a fun and amazing and valuable conversation. So Nicole Khalil is more than slightly obsessed with confidence and what it takes to both build and keep it. She spent the bulk of her professional life with a fortune 500 company where her passion for leadership and her commitment to building her own confidence, led her to become the first female chief development officer.
In the hundred and 60 year company history since starting her own company, Nicole has coached hundreds of executives and entrepreneurs consults with fortune 500 companies hosts that this is women's work podcast and speaks to leaders across the country about the not so secret secrets of confidence.
Both of Nicole's parents immigrated to the United States, her father from Mexico and her mother from Germany, making her a first-generation American. She credits her father and teaching her strong work ethic, confidence, and willingness to take risks. And her mother taught her the organizational skills and effective time management that allows for her to Excel in complex and challenging.
Her values are commitment, courage, authenticity, and you guessed it confidence. And she is focused on demonstrating these on a daily basis, maintaining harmony and her different roles of mother, wife and business owners successfully is an ongoing challenge. And choice management is a much more important skill today than it ever was.
She is a self-admitted foodie and enjoys wine tasting and reading and whatever free time she has. And this is, uh, I, I just want to say, cause sometimes you bring people on who I already have known for a while. And then other times I bring new to me, people on, and I was just really delighted that Nicole and I shared so many of the same values and approaches to, um, business and just a mindset in a lot of ways.
So I know that if you, if you vibe with me, you're going to vibe with her. It is such a good conversation. So onto the episode, Hi, Nicole. Welcome to the salat sister podcast. I am so excited to have you. I am really excited to talk about confidence today, so welcome. Thanks Erica. I'm excited to be here and it's literally my favorite topic in the world to talk about.
So I'm extra excited. Good, good. That's awesome. So before we dive into, uh, talking about what gets in the way of people feeling confident and then how people can start to build their confidence. Tell a little bit about how you got to do like what you do now. Like kind of like your, your origin story.
Cause you have a really cool origin story. Thank you. You know how, when you're living it, it doesn't really seem that cool, but I appreciate that. Um, so my background is with a fortune 100 company, uh, a big sales fortune 100 company. And, um, what I did predominantly was. Focus on the newer sales associates and their training and development, as well as identifying leadership, talent and recruiting and, and all of that.
So, um, it was a very male dominated industry and I was the first female to ever be promoted to my role in the 160 year company history. And so, as you might imagine, uh, I think sales requires a lot of confidence. I think, you know, working in a large corporation requires a lot of confidence and being the only woman in the room, the vast majority of the time for me required a lot of confidence.
And so, um, ultimately what was happening is people were saying, you know, be confident, be bold, be brave. But nobody was really telling me how to do it. You know, like great. Be confident. Like, what does that mean? How do I do, how do I build it? And so I made it more of a personal journey, personal mission to really figure out how to become confident.
I did this through lots of reading, research, observation, testing things out myself, and it became a bit of a passion of mine because I saw very often that confidence visit word that's overused and misused example. A lot of people say confident, but what is actually showing up as arrogant. Um, and so, you know, kind of really differentiating what actually is confident.
And then the second thing is I noticed, and of course, research backs this up that women have less confidence than their male counterparts. And I was seeing that play out professionally over and over and over again. And I don't believe we were born with less confidence. Um, and so it became a bit of a mission as I think about gender equity and eliminating gender expectations, which is my big, big mission.
I thought one of the ways that I could be impactful and relevant was talking to women, coaching women, supporting women to grow and build their confidence. That's awesome. And I, I love that you mentioned the gender equity part because one of my favorite sayings, especially. You know, to, to my clients and stuff is like, just carry yourself with the confidence of a mediocre white man.
So like you hear that and you're immediately like, yeah, I know exactly what that means. Almost like visualize an exact person like an avatar, right? Yes, yes. Yeah. And, and like, I should say too, like at the time of recording, this is during the Olympics when Simone Biles is just, you know, chosen to step away from competing and like, literally it's all mediocre white men that are dragging her.
And it's like, are you, you gotta be kidding me. It is so painful. I could not possibly, you know, I, I was, I guess, proud of her as an American when she won all those metals, I am significantly more proud of her today. Yeah, not that she needs me to be proud of her, but it just, oh God, the example that she's setting and based on everything I've learned and have experienced, that looks like confidence to me.
Yes, I would. I would agree. I think it is. It is such beautiful, beautiful role modeling of, uh, of, yeah. Of, of being confident enough to like put the goat in rhinestones on the back of your leotard and also saying like, yeah, this is not this right now is not for me. And I need to do. Do this, um, yeah, I love it.
And, uh, before we dive into the things that get in the way, I am curious, have you ever read the book playing big by Tara Mohr? I haven't. No, it's so good. So as you were talking about, um, you know, the, that women tend to have less confidence, but we're not born with less confidence. So that book absolutely changed my life.
I actually had her on the podcast, which was like, I was like, oh my gosh, you know, total fan girl moment. Um, yup. I get that. Yeah, but the, what made me think of it while you were talking is why that book changed my life. And I recommended to so many people is because it's all these actual case studies of these brilliant, talented.
Accomplished women who then are like moving outside of their comfort zone to do something different, right? Like change careers or go for like their dream position in their company, or start a business or a nonprofit. And really what it comes down to is like the feeling of I'm not there yet. Like, I don't have the confidence to do the thing yet, and I need to do something else in between in order to kind of feel like deserving and worthy of doing that thing.
Um, and it was, it was through that and like reading that, like these people who I would assume have massive confidence and achievements and all of that, I'm like if they don't believe that they can do the next amazing thing in their life and play bigger than like. Oh, my God, we're just fucked. This is not good as women.
Well, Eric are there too. I think really interesting things that I'll add to that. Number one, I think we, as women often assume that there are people who have it like all together, right? We have certain people we look at and there were like, they don't deal with this. I've had the opportunity to coach women that executive levels, you know, managerial levels, business owners, entrepreneurs multi-millionaires.
And I have yet to meet one who has not been challenged by their confidence. I take, I, when I do keynote presentations, I do a poll and, you know, what's your current level of confidence. And by far the most common response. Has been, I feel confident in some aspects of my life, but not in others. That is, you know, the vast majority, almost 70% of people respond that way.
I've only ever had six people, like not 6%, six humans out of thousands respond. I feel a hundred percent confident, a hundred percent of the time. And every single time it's been in a mixed gender audience. So I can't say for sure that it's answering that, but it, you know, could be, I guess. Um, and I always, you know, tackle that, you know, it's not humanly possible.
You know, I say with love, if you really believe that I would encourage you to go talk to somebody because that is most likely a mental health issue, narcissism, or, you know, The very least massive insecurity in feeling like they need to respond to that. Absolutely. That is so fascinating. So what are some of the things I know you have five key things that really get in the way of confidence.
So I'd love for you to talk about those. Sure. Yeah. I call them confidence de-railers but ultimately these are the things that chip away at our confidence and maybe more, especially for women, there are probably more than five, but these are the five that I see over and over and over again. The first is perfectionism, the expectation that we place on ourselves to have it all be it all, do it all.
And oh, by the way, look good while we're doing it. Right. Um, and it's just obviously an impossible task. We're setting ourselves. To fail because we know perfection is not an achievable goal. The second confidence derailer is head trash. I've heard it called the inner critic. The voice in our head, the third is judgment and comparison.
I think we all know what that looks like, but social media has made that a much easier trap to fall into the fourth is overthinking thinking. Isn't a problem. It's the over part waiting to be ready. Um, the book you mentioned, uh, playing big, I think, you know, is a little bit of some stories of that, you know?
Um, and then finally seeking confidence external. Fifth confidence, thriller. And it goes something like this. If X happens, then I'll feel confident. Exhibition, validation, promotion, income compliments, uh, you know, likes on social media, certain weight. I mean, the list is endless, perfectly behaved kids, right?
If X happens, then I'll feel confident. And so we have our confidence tied to some sort of external, uh, source. And so those are the five biggest confidence trailers. I'm happy to dive into any and all of them a little bit deeper. But, um, when I go through those five in front of a room full of women, you see a lot of head nods.
And I think we all have experienced some version of most, if not all of those, but most of us can say one or two of those are our specific kryptonite. Yeah. Yeah. That is, uh, yeah, I feel like I'm like, oh yeah, I've totally experienced like all of those. And I, my friends, my client, yeah. All of them. And I think especially the last one.
And, um, I think that this is it's, it's really hard to wrap your brain around, but like, kind of like how you were saying co you know, coaching, all of these different people, all of the, all of these different levels, and they're struggling, they're still struggling with confidence in some form or fashion. I feel like the last one, like with money, cause especially, you know, online entrepreneurship, it's very easy.
A lot of the time to see what other people are kind of achieving. Right. If somebody says, oh, I made this much money or I, you know, whatever, um, It's relatively easy to see that compared to like in the corporate world, you might know salary ranges, but you don't necessarily usually know all the exact pay of every single other person in your company.
Um, and I know like there's sort of this idea of like, when I get to whatever revenue level, like, w I, I feel like it's most commonly like a 10 K month, right. When I get to a 10 K month, I will be happy. Everything will be smooth sailing, and like, I will have made it. And I think it's very much in that same way that there's so many, like, uh, things written about people who've had massive weight loss and they're like, I've lost over a hundred pounds.
And I thought I would be happy. And then I realized like, I wasn't, and then I had to work on like the inner stuff, you know? Yeah. I think it's very, it's very much the same. And I think it's one of those things that's really hard. Cause you're like, yeah. But you know, like it just feels like I will be though, so sure.
I want to get there. So do you have anything, like, I know we're going to talk about, you know, how to build the confidence, but like what do you say to people, especially when you're like, when they're like, yeah. When I have, you know, when I'm fully booked or when I met X revenue months or whatever, then I will be able to like exhale.
Yeah. So, and I think, um, too, I want to separate confidence from other feelings, right? Like, so you might actually be able to exhale if you hit a certain income, because you can pay your bills and live, you know, whatever, or you might be able to, um, not feel the financial pressure stress, which I know can be heavy.
But when I like confidence is really about trusting yourself, it's about boldly, trusting yourself. It's about, you know, being not just comfortable, but feeling worthy and valuable in your own skin. It's really like the embracing of this is my life, the life I get to live and you know, how do I honor that and, and live fully and embrace it.
So if we come from income, as it relates to confidence, Um, I think it's a little bit easier to unravel. So I get a lot of the, like when I make a million dollars that I'll feel confident. That's pretty common. And I just, you know, like walk me through that. What would happen if you made 960,000 in that year?
Not confident. Like what's magical about a million, what happens then? And then I've experienced myself and worked with others enough to know that if you tie your confidence to some sort of external thing, what happens is when you achieve that external thing, the 10 K month or making a million dollars, what is more likely to happen is you get there, you celebrate for like, I don't know, 24 hours, and then you start panicking about what's next.
Right. So I made a million dollars. How do I keep making a million dollars or I made a million dollars and I thought something transformative was going to happen. And it didn't. So maybe the number is 1.5 and it's kind of, I equate it a lot to, um, believing like using drugs or alcohol to achieve happiness.
You may temporarily or momentarily feel euphoric, but it wears off more often than not. We will feel worse than we did before. And then we become addicted to that thing. And so, uh, apply it to anything. Uh, we used income in that weight loss as an example, and this is one that people challenged me on a lot.
And listen, I am not the decider of what makes everybody confident or what makes people feel good or what makes people trust themselves. So, yeah. You working out and losing weight actually makes you become confident, good for you. But more often than not, what we're talking about is, um, you know, weight loss or fitting into a certain size.
And when you lose weight, the only thing that happens is you weight less. It doesn't change who you are as a person. And, and we all know incredibly gorgeous women who are not confident. We know skinny women who are, I mean, extreme examples are people with eating disorders or body dysmorphia being a certain size or a certain weight does not equal confidence.
Now you may, as an example, lose weight in a really productive and healthy way and increase your confidence. But my, my stance is it's not the active, losing. That made you confident. It's what you did to achieve it. The promises you kept to, or to yourself about that pride you feel when you deliver on those promises.
I E I'm committing to taking care of my body or eating healthy, or being mindful of my nutrition or drinking more water or, or being committed to exercising a certain amount or in a certain way. It's the trust we create in ourself when we follow through on the commitments and the promises that we make to ourselves, when we prioritize ourselves, when we take care of ourselves, that's what creates the confidence in my mind.
So maybe in the process of that you lost some weight or gotten to a different size, but I don't think it's the weight loss or the size that's giving you confidence. I think it's. Action. You took and the prioritization and delivering on promises and the trust that you created in yourself through the process that is actually delivering that feeling.
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I think, um, like two things that I was thinking while you were talking the one about the, you know, when I get to a level, then, uh, I will, you know, be magically different and confident and then kind of moving that, that goalpost and feeling like, oh, how do I keep the million dollars?
So, yeah. So I feel like it's this, like, it's this interesting thing, like now that I know so many different people at so many different revenue levels in their businesses, I can confidently say that yet. There is, there is no revenue level. That somebody gets to where they're just like, oh yeah. Well, everything from here on out is gonna be awesome.
And every launch is going to go well. And every person I hire is going to be a rock, you know? Like, it's like, no, like there's no, um, safety net, uh, where of revenue that you can get to where suddenly you're like, Woohoo, like now I'm, I'm like superwoman, I'm super confident. I have zero imposter. So, you know, it's, it's like all of those things are there.
And I feel like for me, like being able to actually see and work with and be in community with people who are like yet hitting those, those numbers. And I feel like universally women are like, but it feels like a fluke, like web. And this doesn't matter if they're like, I'm finally at 5k months or 10 K or we've crossed the million dollars in a year threshold.
It's, there's sort of always that underlying current of like, but this must be a fluke and how am I going to keep it going? And the other thing that I've thought of, um, when you were talking about like, it's the action and the trust building, um, it reminded me of a client I had this year, which this was like, so cool to witness, but she had a launch that didn't go how she wanted to, but she didn't give up during the whole launch, like the timeframe she set for herself, she was doing the tasks and the, you know, marketing, um, actions that she.
Told herself she would do. And even when it was like not looking good, she was like, I'm going to stick with it. I made this promise to myself, I'm going to actually do it. And she also was showing up in a way that was in alignment with how she likes to market and what feels good for her. And it was just one of those instances of like, it wasn't a bad offer.
She's brilliant at what she does. She did get some interest, but because it was a group program, she needed that like minimum number to actually make it viable to run it. And she didn't hit that. And she was like, yeah, I'm bummed. But I still love this offer. I want to try to do it again in the future. But more than anything, I was proud of myself.
I like I made, it was like, she built her own self-trust in the process. And I was like, yeah, that's amazing. Like that is really, really, really. Cool. And I feel like we often. Don't do that for ourselves in business. Yes. Yeah. And this will line up perfectly with one of the confidence builders you literally could have, and we could have planned that out.
But, um, uh, what I wanted to say to you is confidence would have us define individually what success means and looks like for ourselves. And so I think one of the things that sort of chips away is we buy into other people's definitions of what success is. I know people who make multiple million dollars that I would not personally define a successful, I mean, Elon Musk, huge example.
You know, he's been divorced three times and admittedly has very little relationship with any of his children. Like to me, doesn't feel like success, no matter how much money he happens to be making. Now, obviously that might be his definition of success. It's not for me to decide what somebody else's success looks like, but it does require a measure of confidence, a measure of trust in ourselves to define it and stand by it for ourselves.
Simone Biles being a phenomenal example. If, if she was she lacked confidence, I would imagine that she would buy into the only definition of success would be more gold medals, but she is a phenomenal example of demonstrating confidence in this is what success looks like for me right now. And I'm sure.
Yeah, that I, I completely agree because yeah, it does, uh, it, it is so powerful to decide, I think for ourselves what, what that looks like, because yeah, I know for a lot of people it's like, you know, could I hustle or do different things and get to a certain revenue level and yeah, but that's not like I have enough, I have plenty, I live a good life.
Like the, my metrics of success are X, Y, Z. And so therefore I don't actually need to seek out that other metric that for another person would be like, no, this is my like, yeah, having that. And then like taking all that extra money beyond what I need. You know, giving it to charity, you know, we're doing different things like that could be their benchmark of success.
So I love that. And I, I I'll add too, you know, I don't think there's anything wrong with desiring financial success. No, no me either. Yeah. I, you know, I think we all have come into adulthood with a relationship with money or a belief around money and I, and I don't have guilt or, um, judgment about making a lot of money.
Um, I can do a lot of really cool things for myself and my family, but also for others. Um, but it's just, it, it, it's the difference between the equation being, if X happens, then I'll feel confident. Yeah. Versus I'm confident. And therefore I have a higher probability. X, whatever is important to me or you or anybody else.
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And I agree too. I'm like, I'm all for it. I'm like, if you want to make money hell yes. Like it's not, we could do a lot of good things with a lot of money in this world for sure. Yep. For sure. So what are the five ways that people can start to boost their confidence? Yeah.
So I'll go through each of the five and, um, also the, each of the five is somewhat of an anecdote to a derailer. So if you heard the derailers and you're like, Ooh, gosh, that one really gets me the most, um, being mindful of the builder that will really help, uh, get you out of that. Um, and, and by the way, knowing what the builders are, practicing the builders, being committed to building your confidence will not make the derailers go away.
So. You be, they might come less frequently or less, you know, dramatically, uh, with practice. But you know, it's kind of that concept of courage. Isn't the absence of fear, right? And confidence. Isn't the absence of doubt or fear of those things. And all the derailers will still be there. They just will hopefully not become the roadblocks and obstacles they have been.
Okay. So the five builders action action is the antidote to overthinking and probably the biggest confidence builder. If you take nothing away from our time together today, take away that action builds confidence. You can't hope your way into confidence. You can't wish your way into confidence. You can't think your way into confidence.
You act your way into confidence, the way you build trust. Um, failure builds confidence. That's the. Confidence builder is failure that usually surprises people. Um, but we know categorically it with a ton of evidence that failure will build your confidence. In fact, it's a necessary component to becoming confident as well as successful.
So failure is the antidote to perfectionism, uh, making mistakes, trusting, and learning that you can recover from them. And, and the story that you shared earlier about the woman who launched and felt proud of herself, but didn't have quite the results that she wanted. That is an example of, of failure building confidence.
Uh, if you fail forward is really your opportunity fail well. Um, the third confidence builder is giving yourself grace on the journey. Uh, that's the antidote to hetero. Um, and it's kind of a two-parter it's, it's the way we talk to ourselves, replacing unkind and untrue thoughts with, with more grace. Uh, we, as women tend to beat ourselves up a ton.
Um, and so, you know, giving grace on the journey, and you mentioned this earlier, it's really understanding that confidence building is a journey. Nobody ever arrived at confidence and is done. Like I've never seen somebody plant the flag and be like, Ooh, glad I did that. Right? Like it is a ongoing, ever evolving journey.
Uh, the fourth confidence builder is choosing confidence. Now that seems probably over simplified, but one of the greatest gifts I've received in the work that I do is being able to be a witness to and observing when people choose confidence, even when they're not feeling. I think we often have confidence is a feeling like either we feel it or we don't, as opposed to a choice we can make anytime we want.
And we actually do this in our lives so much more often than we give ourselves credit for if you had a bad outcome in a meeting, but you had to get ready for the next meeting. We often choose confidence walking into that next meeting because we can't carry what just happen into the next, right? Yeah.
Lots of examples there, but, but understanding that confidence is both a feeling and a choice. And when we can choose whenever we want easier said than done, but it is available to us. And then the fifth confidence builder is building confidence internally, which is of course the antidote to, um, building it externally.
Um, and there are tons of ways that we can do this probably, um, You know, the, the few most impactful are keeping our promises, both the ones we make to our, to others and to ourselves, we tend to be pretty good about keeping commitments and promises that we make to other people, not as good at the ones we make to ourselves.
And if confidence is about building trust and keeping your commitments and your promises is a phenomenal way to do it. Now, that doesn't mean a hundred percent. Okay. We're not going into perfectionism here. Nobody keeps one, a hundred percent of their promises and commitments 100% of the time, but it's definitely a more often than not.
And being mindful of it, uh, creating and keeping boundaries is a great way to build confidence internally, practicing self-care. And I don't necessarily mean, you know, massages and manicures. I really mean being mindful of taking care of yourself. Um, and prioritizing your health and your wellness mentally, emotionally and physically.
Um, I don't love how self care has sort of been made into things that require privilege or a lot of money or excess time, because in my experience, it's really what ever gives you energy. For me, one of the best ways I practice self-care is reading. I love to read it. It gives me energy, um, and it costs me very little.
Uh, so whatever it is for you, whatever fills your tank, um, that's a great way to build your confidence internally is to honor that and follow through on it. I love those. And when you were talking about the like choosing confidence, it made me think of, I I'm getting. Mess up the quote, but the one that, where it's like, you know, speak your truth or whatever, even if your voice shakes, like whatever that is.
But it kinda makes me think of those moments where you're like, I'm gonna stick up for myself. I'm gonna stick up for somebody else. And you're like, or, or I'm going to like choose the, maybe like the less popular choice or the thing that goes against the status quo and having that like consciously making the choice of like, this is scary and I don't feel a hundred, like you said, like that, you know, it's not a hundred percent, but like I'm still going to choose to be confident enough in the moment to advocate for myself or this person or this choice or, um, whatever.
And when I, like, when I look back over my life, Every time that I was like, I don't feel a hundred percent confident, but I'm choosing to be confident and choose what feels right. For me, even if I'm going to get pushback or whatever it's always done so well for like in the, in the end, like maybe not in the moment, but ultimately I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm so glad I did that.
And it literally, like, I feel like those moments compounded so that now whenever new moments come up that make me feel like I'm really shaky and I'm scared and whatever, I actually have so much evidence and so much proof to go back to, to be like, yeah, but wait, you did this, you did that. You know, thing, like all of those things.
And I feel like it's almost like I'm like flooding myself with. Enough confidence that I can then do the next horse. Yeah. So you're, you're giving an excellent example of two of the confidence builder first choosing it. And I think it's important what you're saying, choosing it implies that it isn't, um, obvious or that it isn't easy.
Right. If everything's going well and everything's easy and everything works out, then, you know, what choice do we need to make? It's really easy to be confident when everything is working in our favor, but life does not go that way. And so, you know, yes, choosing confidence, it is in the face of fear in the face of doubt in the gut.
I don't, I don't feel confident in the moment I'm going to choose it. And then the second confidence builder is then getting into action. Literally doing something with it. Um, and that builds confidence for all the reasons that you just said, how do you tackle something that seems overwhelming, big, impossible.
The answer is one step at a time, little risks built up over time, lead to big confidence. And, and so, you know, if something seems big, you know, like you said, with the shaky voice, do it. If, if you have a goal that seems so far away, get into action towards the goal, you don't have to complete the goal tomorrow.
Just get an action towards it. One foot in front of the other. I love that. I love that. So obviously this is, you know, we, we talk about sales and marketing around these parts on this podcast. So since you were in sales at, you know, before you had your business, what are your suggestions for people who have to show up who have to market themselves and their offers, and then have the confidence to say like, yeah, this is good.
You should pay me for it. Right. Um, so first I always believe in sales that you sell twice sometimes more than twice, but definitely twice first yourself, then the person that you're selling to. So really being mindful, whatever it is that you're selling. How can you increase your belief, your conviction, your commitment around it.
And so, you know, the best way to do that is to find out why you would buy this or why you would invest in it and being authentic and showing up. You gave him that example again, with the woman whose course didn't go so well. She showed up as herself. Now, maybe the first go round. She didn't get the results that she wants, but I'm guessing she's getting closer and closer and closer to those amazing results that she is looking for.
Um, so I, you know, that's tip number one is you always sell twice, uh, first to yourself and then to the person. Um, and then the biggest mistake I see people make in sales is they think that their market is every. Like they, they are make their funnel so wide. And this is a little trick. I tell myself if there are 330 million people in the United States, if 1% of the population invested in something with me at $50, just want $50.
I'd make 1.6, $5 billion. If 0.0, 1% of the population gave me that $50. I may make 16 and a half million dollars. You don't need everybody to like you. In fact, 99.9% of the population can think you're a complete pack and you'd still be a multimillionaire. So the question is, can you appeal to 0.1%? Oh 0.01% or 1%.
And if your demographic is a smaller one, you know, think about your, the town you're in or the surrounding towns. I'm guessing if you do the math, you still come out. Millions ahead. So, um, my tip and sales is stop trying to serve everyone. Know your value, know who you are, be confident in that, and then go find your people.
I am so glad you mentioned that because I am constantly saying attract the best repel the rest. Oh my gosh. There's so many people out there where you're just like those desert my people. Oh, oh my gosh. No, I, um, I love to tell the story of like the, the angry email I got post inauguration this year. I didn't even, I just casually mentioned like, oh, you know, it was, the inauguration felt like a big exhale, blah, blah, blah.
And then I went into whatever the heck I was talking about. And this woman, her name was Barb. I'm like, that's iconic. Thank you, Barb. Um, she was very mad and she wanted to tell me all about how she didn't like me. She didn't like my politics. And I was like, oh, well, thank God. I mean, I'm so glad that she a noticed and be like, doesn't want to work with me because I don't want to work with people like that.
And I'm obviously doing my job. Uh, not that everyone has to like get political 24 7 in their business, but like, I am doing my job well, if I am repelling the wrong people. Uh, and so, yeah. And that's, oh my gosh, those numbers about the like amount of money you would make on that is just mind boggling. That is so much money.
Yeah. Well, and I think too, Like you're saying is I'm almost grateful for the people who make it obvious that they're not my people. Um, you know, I kind of have this like app avatar in my mind of my ideal and who's might not. Um, and I think, you know, part of being in sales and part of running a business is really finding your niche or your target market.
And I encourage when people do that to start with yourself first, who are you? Who are you? What do you value? Um, so that you can attract the people. You'll probably enjoy working with the most, but, you know, NAB Barb sort of that, that avatar. But unfortunately I think a lot of people waste a lot of time trying to convince the barbs of the world or try to turn the barbs of the world in your favor.
And I think it's really important as you did to just be like, okay, I gotta let this one go. Um, take any time and energy I could waste over here with Barb and spend it getting closer to my people. Yes, exactly. And I think too, I, I really love how you mentioned that selling happens twice and we first have to like sell it to ourselves in our mind.
Um, this is something that has been coming up for the last few weeks, uh, in my group program is around w like a lot of the stuff that comes up that derails confidence when you raise your prices. Um, cause it's suddenly this fear of who is going to pay that people will be mad, you know, all of that. Um, and I think what is the most interesting about that is that.
It really comes back to that. Like, yeah. Again, we're not trying to talk to all people yet. Some will, some will be net, some will be disappointed. Um, but we're not trying to talk to all people. And it's like that. I always say like, you feel it in your body. And it's like, one of those things that like, you can't fully embrace that it's a problem until you feel it in your body.
Like until you have that moment where you go, I am not making an, like, I'm not getting paid well enough for the value I'm delivering. And I feel like it's, once we sell it to ourselves, the reality of, I am not like I should be getting compensated better for what I'm bringing to the table. It's like, only in that moment, I feel like that people can go.
I'm ready because I feel like it's in that moment where you're like, okay, I'm going to, you know, raise my rate, you know, 50%, whatever, when you have sold it to yourself first that you are worth every penny of the new rate. Even if there's like that trepidation before you sell the first one, we were like, oh my God, am I making a huge mistake?
But I feel like, I feel like that's what it really, like. I feel like you articulated it so well, because like, that's what it is. It's like selling to ourselves. The idea that like, hell yeah, that rate, even though I've raised, it is still phenomenal for the thing that I'm doing. Yeah. Um, totally tactical tip, but I've raised my rates several times and I've learned some of this the hard way.
And then I worked with a lot of women who've done the same and, and, and by the way, the fear around doing it is universal. Um, but when you raise your rates, Small tip, but when you say your new rate, just say it and shut up. We as women. Well, I don't know if this is a woman thing. I work predominantly with women, so I see this a lot, but we tend to say, you know, my rate is X and then we start explaining it or justifying it, you know, the value of my work, dah, dah, dah.
And, and in doing so we are planting a question mark in people's minds, just say the rate and be quiet and let people say, cause how often people are like, okay. And you're like, oh my gosh, it was that easy. Um, or somebody might go, oh, okay, well how much were you budgeting? And then you can ask yourself, you know, is there somewhere in the middle or, or that thing, but, and this is an unpopular opinion, but I've seen it play out over and over and over again.
Um, when you raise your rates or when you have high rates, um, first of all, what's high for some people might not be high for others, it's all relative. Um, if you want to do it when you're, you're close to capacity or when things are going well, um, what ends up happening is you sort of lose the bottom 20 to 30%.
So you do lose some people, but you, you more than pay for it by the people, you, and the people you gain. But what's really frustrating. And I'm always mindful to have free resources. I'm always mindful to do things that are lower costs. No matter it is important to me that not only the privilege have access to my work or my content, that is a priority for me having said that.
And I say this with love people with low budgets, tend to be the biggest pain in the asses to work. And I'm, it's frustrating. I don't not want to work with people with low budgets because of my greed or my need to be compensated, because there are certain things that I do, like almost in that pro bono space.
I sometimes can't do it because it's become a boundary it's so energy draining. It's so frustrating. It's so, so, you know, I say this with love, regardless of what dollar amount you're investing into somebody's business or service or product, you know, be kind and be clear about expectations upfront and accept what people do or don't do, or that they know their business.
If you're hiring them, you're not the expert. Um, And don't be a jerk. It's really quite frustrating in my opinion. Yeah. I I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of hate mail for that, but then they, I mean, I pretty sure I mentioned this, like, I've done a couple episodes on pricing because it's something that's so difficult and nuanced and it comes up so much.
Um, and like you said, everyone, everyone universally struggles with like raising their rates and everything. Uh, but I have seen it time and again, and I'm just like you, like, I'm like, I share so much like in my podcast and other things and I, I do it gladly. Like my, I always say like my free stuff is my accessible content.
Um, and I do have some other, you know, lower cost resources as well. But the, the differences is that though. Don't take my active time. Like the lower cost paid things. I don't have to show up. I don't have to do a lot of customer service. They're just very passive, you know, like courses, many courses, like it's, things like that.
And I have just seen time and again, from all different types of businesses, all different types of, um, clientele, all the, I mean, just all different types of offers, like time and time and time again, that of, of friends and clients. Who have been like, I am going to shut down this low cost member. It's usually a low cost membership.
It's usually something where it's like you as the provider still have to kind of be actively involved. But the, the people who are there are not, um, you know, they're not paying as much and, uh, where they're like, I'm exhausted. I am it's constant customer service. It's constantly people being disappointed because they are paying $50 a month.
And they think that they're supposed to be getting like private coach. I don't like it's, you know, they're like I said, it all on the sales page, it's right there. Like, this is what they're getting, but, but people have like, have a different idea in their mind. Obviously, not all people, but like have a different idea in their mind of what they should be getting.
And I've like literally had like my best friend just recently should she's super over-delivers. She's so brilliant at a hundred dollars a month. Membership. And somebody wrote in this whole email that was like, they were upset about all these things they thought they should be getting. And she literally was like that.
Wasn't what was promised. I'd been delivering what was promised. I've gone ahead and just refunded you and canceled your subscription, like just straight up. And she's, she's literally like winding it down now she's closing it and she's reopening it in a slightly different container that is a bit higher priced and a smaller capacity and a different experience because yes, like, and I have just seen it so many times in my clients where they're like, I am getting frustrated and people are pushing back on the rate and whatever.
And when we break it down, it really comes down to a, the band that you were charging for that thing. And obviously, like you said, it's all relative. So industry to industry, whatever is low, could be totally different, but it is causing the wrong people to show up who want the sun, the moon and the stars for not enough money.
And it's burning you out. You have to raise your rates because yeah, you will like, and I think, I think it actually like, just to tie it all back in, I, I feel like when you are experiencing that pushback from the wrong types of people, like people that you should not be, um, serving in that, like in like a low cost container, again, depends, varies industry to industry, but I feel like it erodes our confidence as providers because we start to question.
Like, am I good at this? Or did I make a mistake or do I deserve to have success? If I couldn't get this right, then I'm going to keep getting it wrong. And it's like, I really do feel like that over overworking for not for not being fairly compensated ourselves. It erodes our confidence in our ourselves.
Yeah. I mean, yes, of course we get the emails. There is a person on the planet who doesn't have the sinking stomach and that, oh my gosh. You know, and like really handling that in a productive way, asking yourself some important questions, being honest with yourself and then determining what's the appropriate way to move forward.
But just generally speaking, my, you know, my boundary, I talked about building confidence internally, keeping that under pit, like one of my boundaries is I just don't work with jerks. I don't care how much you pay me. And I. Aware that I am privileged to be able to say that not everybody has that choice. I get that, but I don't work with jerks, whether you're going to pay my highest and then some rate is just not worth it.
But what's, I think kind of frustrating for me is the general trend that I've seen is that people who have treated me like your experts, typically the ones at the lowest price points. And I don't know what that is. Um, so anyway, I mean, not all people at the lowest price, but I'm just, yeah. Anyway. Totally.
Yeah. And I think, yeah, like we said, like it really, you know, cause I've a client who only sells lower costs. Um, Passive courses and things like that. And it, and it works out great, you know? And so, yeah, totally. You know, she has a totally different, you know, it's just not a B2B person, you know, like B to C and totally different audience, but yeah, I think it's, I'm just I'm so with you on that, because yeah, nothing, I feel like nothing feels better than charging an appropriate price for.
Quoting it and the other person just being like, sounds great. Send me the invoice. That is such a confidence builder. You're like, yeah, I'll add this. And this might not be true for everybody. I actually have gotten to the point where if somebody is like, yep, let's do it. I have the, oh crap. I should have
I actually look forward to like, just one. It doesn't need to be an objection, but just a question like, um, you know, cause then that feels like it wasn't too easy. It's not too hard. Um, I sort of, I know we won't have time to get into this, but I've sort of reframed my mind a little bit about negotiation and that it's.
It's more of a good thing than it is something to be scared of or avoided. Yeah. But I say that and I still get nervous every time I oh yeah. I have that conversation. So, absolutely. Absolutely. Well, I'm going to have all the places people can find you in the show notes, but is there anything else that you want to tell people of, you know, where you want to direct them to or anything like that?
Go for it. Yeah. So, um, my favorite free resource is my podcast. This is woman's work and I really do. It's like a passion project for me. I share. Most everything that I share and all of my other work in that podcast. So it is a phenomenal free resource. Um, I also partnered with a couple other phenomenal women to do a 12 week mastermind for business owners.
It's called honor your ambition. We do 12 weeks of all business acumen, plus peer to peer group sessions and all that. It's $2,000, which I know for some people might seem like a really big price point, but you know, my highest offering at, at keynote is $10,000. So, you know, I feel like, uh, 2000 for 12 weeks and other women and peer to peer and all sorts of resources and support it is, um, I try to, I put that in the category of, it might be underpricing myself, but it makes it more accessible for.
Women who are launching, growing, scaling a business. Um, we, we do say if you're, if you've hit the half a million mark, this business is probable or this mastermind isn't for you. Um, yeah. That's awesome. It sounds, it sounds really, it sounds really good. And really like, I like the name too. Yes, that's awesome.
I love it. Well, thank you so, so much. I really appreciate, appreciate your time and your knowledge. And this was just so good. I feel like it's yeah. Confidence is so crucial in, in business, especially, especially for women. So I really appreciate it. Thank you. Yeah, my pleasure, Eric, thank you so much for having me.
And I don't know if you feel this, but I like, it felt like this time just went by in a flash so fast. Yeah. I looked up and I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah, totally. Yeah, absolutely. It was. I feel like we could keep going for a whole other hour. So good. Thank you again. My pleasure. Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the, sell it sister podcast
