Ep. 150: Using Social Media Mindfully w/ Andréa Jones
In a time where being on social media is really important as a business owner, it can feel hard to draw boundaries around how much time is too much time over there.
It can feel like in order to be successful we need to be all the places all the time, but that’s a recipe for disaster.
Unless you’re outsourcing all of your social to an agency like the one my guest runs, you’re going to crash and burn if you aren’t mindful about social media.
That’s why in this week’s episode I brought social media agency owner and expert Andréa Jones on to talk about her approach to social media mindfulness.
She’s got great insights and tips on how to make the most out of social media for your small businesses without it overtaking your life.
Links:
Rebellious Success: https://erikatebbens.com/rebellious-success
Website: https://onlinedrea.com/
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@onlinedrea
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/onlinedrea/
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I was so excited for this interview episode of sell it sister, because Andrea Jones is somebody who I have been following for several years online.
We had, uh, multiple mutual friends in common, but it's only been in the last several months. She, and I have really connected, uh, in the online space and she's just brilliant. She is so good at what she does. She's so great at making social make sense. And I just know you're going to get a ton of value out of what she has to say.
She is of course, on all of the socials because of the work that she does. So wherever you like to hang out online, be sure to. Follow her at either, uh, Online Draya or Andrea Jones just search for her and you'll be able to find her. And then she mentioned that at the end, but I just wanted to say it up top.
It's also in the show notes. Once you are done listening, check out her social media rockstar framework, free course@onlinedraya.com forward slash. So who is this Andrea Jones person. If you don't already know, allow me to tell you she has built an online business, committed to empowering businesses to utilize the power of social media in a positive and impactful way without being overwhelmed and drained.
With over seven years experience in the game, Andrea hosts, the acclaim podcast, the savvy social podcast. She leads a team providing done for you service inside of her marketing agency. That was named a top digital marketing agency in 2021 and serves over 200 students in her membership, the savvy social.
Again, you can find her online@onlinedraya.com or at online Drea on all of the socials. And I recently got to be interviewed for her savvy social podcast as well. And that was just such a great experience. She's so awesome. I know that if you're feeling stressed, if you're feeling overwhelmed with.
Keeping up with social media and running your business there. This is an absolute must. Listen. All right. On to the interview. Hi, Andrea. Welcome to this. Sell it sister podcast. I am so excited to have you here today. Oh, thank you so much for having me on this. Yeah. So you are an absolute expert when it comes to social media and digital marketing.
And I was really excited to have you on to have this conversation because my folks know that they need to be on social media. And in a lot of ways, there are elements that they do enjoy about it. They don't necessarily want to like entirely leave social media. But, you know, sometimes feels a little bit like the struggle bus, which I'm sure you get with your clients all of the time.
So I'm really excited to talk about mindfulness and approaching, showing up and content creation through that lens. But first I would love to know how the heck did you end up doing what you do? Because obviously this is a relatively new. Industry. Yeah, it is. And it's wild because I actually met my husband on YouTube.
This was like 2013. Yeah. So social media is like my life. Um, but prior to meeting him, I, uh, I worked in hospitality. Um, when I was in university, I did an intern. With marketing. Um, and then right after being that, I was one of the youngest people on the team it's was like 20 11, 20 12. Um, they were like, Andre, can you help us with social?
Cause you're the youngest person here. So we need to know how to do this Facebook and Twitter thing. So that's really how I got my feet wet. Um, and then once I met my husband, we were both creating YouTube videos by the way, which was totally weird. Like nobody was in their bedroom talking to a camera about their lives.
That was weird. Yeah. Back in 2013, it's a whole job title now to be an influencer. But back then it was weird. So we connected, we collaborated kind of like we're doing on this podcast. And then we just kept talking after that. And that was the. For me starting my business because I lived in Atlanta, Georgia.
He lived in Toronto, Canada. And so I ended up moving to Canada to be with him and needed a job that I could work from anywhere as I was kind of going through my citizenship, um, requirements. That's what started the business. I started up doing all of the things to have a degree in English literature. So I started doing research and writing, uh, but the social media piece came very naturally to me.
I enjoyed it and it was repeatable. So a lot of the service-based business that I offered initially, my clients needed that every single month. And so, um, I kind of made a space for myself as a freelancer and grew into an agency. And now we have our education side of the business as well. I love it. I love, I always love hearing.
People's like origin stories, their journeys. Um, it's funny. I am also an English major and so yeah. That's agree to work. Um, and I, I actually forget that like all the time about this, but way back probably. It was actually probably somewhere around 2013 ish as well. Um, my dad has always been in real estate and for a while he was doing sales for two luxury properties.
And this was again, like very early days of like really marketing on. Social media and having sort of that like brand presence on social media. And, you know, my dad is a much older dude and he was like, yeah, I don't, I don't know. Um, and he asked me. Is that something you would be able to do? And I was like, sure.
I, and I, I mean, I get like, no, no anything, no training, probably like you were, you were just like, you were the young person and you were familiar with the platform. So I was like, okay. So for a period of time, I, I didn't even like give myself a title necessarily, but I was running. Two different properties, like Facebook and Twitter as well.
And I legitimately forget that I did that all the time, but I'm like, oh, that's kind of funny that like, that, that was a thing I did before. It was actually like a thing. So yeah, it really was, we were all figuring it out back then. It was like, those were the glory days. She posted something on Facebook and people.
Yeah.
Very true. Very, very true. Yeah. Well, so back to mindfulness, because I know that this is really hard and for a lot of people and it's that constant poll of like, I should be there, but like, I don't want to be here 24 7. And, uh, and, and I know that you have some really good. Ways to approach that that are a lot more sustainable.
So I would love for you to tell my listeners a bit about that. Yeah. And I think it is challenging with social media because it's a mixture of our personal lives and our business lives. And it's one of the only places where both of those things commingled, so frequent. Yeah. Um, and so as business owners, we check in a Facebook to like, see our sister's kid.
And then we're also like in all of these Facebook groups doing work as well. Um, and so as business owners, I do recommend to kind of draw that line in the sand for yourself and create some boundaries and some parameters, but for what social media. For you. So I like to do this exercise of, you know, scroll through Instagram or Facebook or your platform of choice and start to notice which posts like how you feel as you're looking at the posts, which posts do you enjoy?
Which posts do you dread, which posts make you feel anxious, you know, just start scrolling through and no. Just noticing you don't have to change anything, but that process will start to inform you on what you should do next. So when I do this for myself, for instance, Facebook, I use for groups primarily.
Um, and so I noticed that I like going in for work and for groups, but for personal life, It's not that fun for me. So I just stopped using it for personal life and I feel a lot better about it. And I'm able to actually carve out time now where, you know, three times a week, I'm going in, I'm looking at Facebook groups I'm in and I'm participating.
And as someone who. It was a self declared free spirit. I just want to go with the flow. Um, this kind of structure actually helps me in my business because you know, these apps are designed to be addictive. They're designed to keep you on them. They're designed to keep you scrolling. And I just said, you know what?
I'm not going to let myself get drawn into that addictive. And social media is my job too. So I spend a lot of time on social media. So for me, I have to have clear boundaries around what that. So, um, you know, really deciding what that looks like for yourself, for myself. Like I said, I have certain platforms that are used for certain things.
I also give myself permission to have a primary, like main platform. You don't have to be on all of them. I am for my job. Uh, but really just one or two is fine. What even, um, I don't have notifications turned on, so I don't accidentally see anything ever. I have to actually go into the app to see stuff. Um, and I get support.
Like my team helps check my messages and things that, you know, sometimes if I don't check for a couple of days, things can get missed. And so I have that backup person to help. And so that's how I. Decided to use social. And my friends know this, my family knows this. If you want to reach Andrea, you're not going to send her an Instagram DM text me.
Cause like I won't see it. Yeah. And I, and I love that. And I think, um, you know, it's, it's, I'm really glad that you said that because it might seem like, oh my gosh, Is that allowed, like, am I allowed to not actually be the person that is there and are people going to get offended or will they not want to work with me or whatever.
But like, I know you, and I feel like even though I don't know, it wasn't like I knew exactly who would be responding because I'm because I know you because I'm familiar with your business. All of that. I was just like, yeah, we're probably going to do some of this arranging. Through assistance and stuff.
Some of the schedule, it like, there was no weirdness. I wasn't like, oh, Andrea, can't be bothered. You know? Like, I'm like, no, you're like, you're busy, I'm busy, whatever. And it's just, it was just this thing of like, cool. Yeah, that's the boundary, that's the structure like, awesome. I respect it. I love it. You know?
And, and so to anyone listening, who's like, uh, I feel like people are going to be like, Turned off by that. Like, no, it totally doesn't have to be that way. People, the right people will understand. Yeah. And I go really deep with personalization in other ways, too. Right. So I love to do video for instance. So I show up there quite a bit.
Um, my clients and my students get tons of attention from me because I'm not splitting that with like people who aren't paying me on social media, for instance. So I think there is. Balance of, you know, like really figuring out and y'all, this took me a long time. Like I started this journey, social media, mindfulness in 2017 first step turning off notifications.
So like, it took years of like developing what this looks like for myself. So be gentle with yourself. Yeah. You'll try some things and go, Hm. That didn't feel quite quite right. And then you go back to doing whatever you're doing before. Definitely. Yeah. I think, um, I think I had said to you. Uh, on your podcast that I primarily try to take the weekend.
Off. Uh, but sometimes I just am like in a mood and I feel like showing up. And so, yeah. I try to even be not too rigid with myself because like, if I'm feeling the vibe and I'm excited to show up and like be in stories or share some behind the scenes, like, I don't want to be like, oh no, it's a Saturday.
Like you're not allowed to do that. So yeah. Yes, that's a thing, you know, that's um, even though I don't have notifications turned on, I check Instagram, like in between my calls constantly. Like I love being on the app, so I'm probably going to see something anyways, but it's, for those moments where I'm like this past weekend, I wanted a completely like detox, digital detox day.
I went to the spa and even though. The phone with me. I didn't accidentally say anything because I really wanted to kind of be disconnected. And it's that piece. That's the most important thing for me because the rest of the time I am checking like constantly. Yeah. Oh my gosh. I bet. I bet. But. Good at like a spotty kudos to you for a, a spotty.
I love a good spotty. Um, so in terms of like, as you mentioned, you know, picking your platforms, you don't have to be on all of the platforms. So how do you advise your clients when thinking about that? Because I know like in full transparency for me, I, I know that I could rock it on tick-tock and the only reason I haven't like started creating is because of.
Currently tick-tock for me is like my place to zone out. And I don't want to have to think about like, oh, are people commenting on my things? And I should be like, nurturing them. You know what I mean? Like I don't, I just want it to be a place where I can go and just like, Consume content and zone out. So I haven't actually started creating for my business there yet, and I always go back and forth in my mind.
So I would love to hear your approach on like, how do you choose that primary platform or even like a couple of platforms? Yeah. So the first thing I want you to consider is your preferences. Um, If you like creating video content, for instance, there are certain platforms that are great for that. If you prefer written content, if you prefer photography, there are certain platforms that are better for that.
So kind of keeping that piece in mind. Um, and then also obviously where your audience is spending their time. And thankfully, a lot of the bigger platforms. Most people are on, you can find pockets of your audience. Right. Um, as of now, you know, beginning of the year 2022, um, Instagram is great for business because you commingle with both personal and business accounts.
So you don't necessarily have to have some account that looks completely different from someone's personal account. Um, and there's a ton of users on there. So there's a higher chance of finding your people on the app. Um, and then if you are business. LinkedIn is fantastic right now. So I, I say that with the caveat of your preference, I do have some people who go, I logged into LinkedIn, it hurt my head.
I never want to go there again. And I'm like, that's fine. You know, we can think about something else. Um, and then Twitter, if you're in an industry that is either like political advocacy or you're in journalism or something like that, we also see, uh, The community of podcasters over there. So Twitter could also be a great consideration, especially if you don't want imagery with your posts and you just want to focus on the words themselves.
I'm going to have conversations as a great platform for that. So those are the three that I tend to kind of steer folks towards. Tik TOK is great if you were already creating video. So my. My advice. Professional advice is if you aren't creating video yet, just don't worry about it. Um, it is the wild, wild west.
It is a beautiful thing as a marketer, I'm really enjoying it, but there's almost no predictability. It's too young. So you'll spend a lot of time trying to figure it out, let the marketers figure it out first and focus on something where there's a little bit more predictability. Um, and then the second thing is if you're doing Instagram really.
For instance, then you can start reposting some of that content or recreating it on Tik TOK ups. That could be a way to kind of get used to the app and kind of dive in there. Um, I'm like the tick talks algorithm is one of the best social media algorithms right now. Um, which means. Your content has to really resonate with people.
There is no room for fluff on that app. Um, and it, you have to really truly know who you're speaking to and you don't have to do like, like there's a broad spectrum of the types of videos you can create on the app. Um, so I personally am enjoying spending time there and like studying it and I'm analyzing it as a marketer.
But if you don't have the extra time, I would say focus on some of the apps that have more predictable outcomes first. Yeah. I love that. And you have like great tick talks. Like I, I follow you, you know, I would, um, comment on your stuff over there. And, uh, so for anyone who was on Tik TOK, be sure to follow her there, but yeah, you, you put out great content and I love what you said about the no fluff and like the algorithm, like, I don't know what mad scientists they have.
Creating the algorithm over there, but it's spooky, accurate. And. I it's funny. I'm sure you seen the tick talks that are like the people complaining that they're for you pages boring. And it's like, if your FYP is boring, it means you are boring. Oh yeah. I've definitely see that. Cause mine is not boring at all.
Yeah. Uh, it's just a lot of fun. Like it, it reminds me of the old days of the internet where you just log on and you go, what am I going to see today? Yeah. Yeah. Kind of like, it's funny when there've been those little pockets of things like Periscope, you know, where it's like, Ooh, it's this like thing that's there for, you know, a bit and people are trying it out and everything.
So, um, I love it. Yeah. Maybe, maybe at some point, but for now I'm good. I'm good with where I am. Good and just good. Just enjoying tic-tac. So people pick, you know, you they're deciding, you know, what platforms am I going to be on? They pick their platform, they're showing up there. And then what are your thoughts on content creation?
Because I know this is something especially a lot of my clients will struggle with is feeling like I have to be this content creating machine, or I have to. Really like overthink my content. Like it's it just becomes this thing that is just energetically exhausting. So what are your strategies or the advice that you have around mindful content creation?
Yeah. You know, as business owners, we go into creating social media content thinking we should know something already. And that's really where a lot of the challenge comes from as well is if you ever tried to like, create an Instagram story and you get frustrated because he can't find the right Jeff or like the captions aren't showing up bright.
And it's like as adults, especially in professional spaces where like, we should know this. So we beat ourselves up over that. Or we're like staring at the blinking cursor. We don't know what to write. And we're frustrated. So part of that frustration does come from learning a new skill. Um, marketing is a new skill and then social media adds a whole level of complexity just on the technology side.
Um, and then also the amount of content we feel like we need to produce. Instead of giving a content metric to aim for. So, you know, post daily, I like to use time-based metrics because it allows us to develop a skill and it gives us space to be okay with not having a post ready, because we want to take the time to produce quality content instead of.
Being on this treadmill of like, I got to get a post out today and just putting out something. So this time-based metric, um, a lot of my students start with one hour a week for content creation. Um, so this is outside of any other content you're creating, not the blog or the podcast or anything like that.
Just the social media. And sitting down for an hour a week and going, okay, I'm going to plan out my content for the next week. I'm going to write some captions. Maybe you go in Canva and designs and graphics. The first couple of times you do that, you're probably only going to get like a post a half. Uh, but it's a skill and you build up that skill.
And within that hour, you start to produce more and more content. And most of my students are around three to five posts per week within that hour. And that's a really good place for a lot of solo business owners who wear all of the hats in their business. Because we have a million other things to do, and we're not even talking about actually going in and like networking and responding to comments and all of that.
So that's really where I recommend spending is carving out that hour a week so that you can actually get better and develop the skill of posting on social media. I really appreciate that. You said that it's a scale and how you illustrated of like, you know, you're over time, you'll be able to get. Faster with it, because that has really been my experience as well.
I know that a couple of years ago when we moved, I just didn't have the energetic bandwidth to sit down and really plan out my content in the way that I had before, because I used to be very diligently. You know, what am I going to talk about? I would write notes about the captions. I would, you know, get the images a lot of times, like back then I was using.
and that, so I would load everything. I would schedule it like the whole shebang and I'd do it in two week chunks usually. And then I was just like, something's gotta give. And I realized that it was like, oh, I could create more of like a loose structure for myself. And then. Allow myself the flexibility to be inspired and, and kind of have like a nice middle ground, right.
It was like, okay, what am I promoting right now? All right. What are like the key points I need to hit? And then like, what is the type of thing I want? Put up, like, do I want to just show up and go live? Do I want to create a real, do I want to take like a, a selfie or a branded photo and put it up there?
You know, like what is the thing that I want to do? And that has been actually really sustainable for me. And I really enjoy it because there's not, I don't, I no longer need to carve out a window of time to actually sit down and like plan and type and have it all ready to go. Yeah, and I think that's really, it like leaning into what works for you.
And some of that means trying different things and trying different strategies. I did a, um, a one-on-one session with someone yesterday who was talking about how she goes through. Phases throughout the year where there's just some times of year, especially in the summer and around the winter holidays, she's just like, it's, it's like pulling teeth to post on social media.
So I said, well don't and she was like, what? Yeah, just don't post during that time. And she was like, oh, I didn't know, I could do that. And I think, you know, part of it is like giving yourself permission to like, yes, you want to show up as a business owner, right? You want to participate and be there. And also you're a human being.
Who's not like on show 24 7, so you can decide, Hey, in July, I just don't post. Or in December, I just don't post or whatever that looks like for you. For me, it ends up being the weekends, generally speaking. And then, you know, I'm planning my maternity leave. We are planning a whole content repurposing thing where I've been talking about this for eight years.
So we're going through the back catalog of post and going, what can we repost? Right. Um, and so there's lots of options for those, those periods of times where you're not feeling inspired or you just need a break because I don't know. You're a human being. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And I, uh, I'm so glad that you mentioned that because I know that that will really resonate with my listeners because I know it can feel like, yeah, I have to be.
Human machine hybrid that is like constantly visible or else I'm never going to get business. And I have to be constantly creative and inspiring and, you know, uh, showcase myself as the expert and like, it just, it can feel really exhausting. And I think, you know, I'm sure this is your take on it too. Like I would rather have my clients take those intentional breaks.
And then come back refreshed and be really present rather than like, Feeling almost like forced into a break because their body's like, I can't do it. And then stuff gets sporadic and then they're like, revenue gets sporadic, you know, like, and then it, I feel like it just creates this whole downward spiral.
Wow. Yeah. And so getting in front of it, I think really helps. And the more you do it. The larger your back catalog becomes, and you can start recycling content again, and even start now thinking about the concept and ideas that you want to recycle. I like to call this, um, like the commercial jingle, you know how like, oh yeah.
We know the Folgers there, like that lawyer, we know their phone number. It's like all the radio. You know, with your posts, what's your catchphrase or commercial jingle version of the message that you're trying to get across because social media moves very quickly. Um, and so yes, you can use different stories to illustrate that point, but the main point of it, how can you keep bringing that again and again, and that will help speed up that content creation process.
I really, I really love that. Yeah, because it's, it's, uh, you're right. It does move so fast and not everyone sees everything. And I actually have like my first VA ever, she's now niched into podcasting, like helping people with their podcasts. And I have seen her for years recycle content around that, and I have never been.
Oh, I literally remember a year ago when she said the same thing. I'm like good for her. Like yeah. Reuse that post. That was a good post, you know? And I'm like, I'm like, yeah, like even though I somehow my weird brain like remembers seeing that before I'm like, there are new people here who are going to see it for the first time and they're going to resonate.
So I love it. I love it. Um, so obviously if people, you know, if, if you're listening and you're like, I'm ready to outsource this. Like book a call, get on him. She's got great people in her agency and they can help you with summer all of this. But I want you to talk a little bit both about your membership and then also a free resource people can get from you because I know there might also be some people who are like, I don't know if I'm really ready to relinquish all control of my social media, but I do want to get better about it myself.
Yeah, absolutely. And especially if you're in the earlier stages of your business, um, you want to figure it out for yourself. So then you can outsource it with some like knowledge behind that. And that's what we do in the savvy social school. So we have courses on. The various platforms like Instagram, LinkedIn, Facebook, tick talk, even.
Um, so when you join, you get access to all of that. Um, plus we have our framework that is applicable to any platforms. When I talk about the time that we're spending on social media and the types of content that we're creating on social media and the messages behind them that is in our framework. Um, we also give a ton of support for our members in our community.
We have regular strategy hours where myself and my team have. Professionals can come on and coach you and support you with what you're doing in your marketing. Um, and this goes beyond social media as well. We have email marketing, um, in paid advertising and all sorts of ways to support online business owners.
Um, if you want to just get like a little sample of what that's like, that's what the free course is. The free course, we'll walk you through our framework and our strategy. We like to think of this as like that Costco sample, where like, we give you the, we give you the little cheese and cracker that you buy the whole thing.
Right? Get your sample. And in the sample, it has tons of done for you content as well, which is what, another way we support our members. So you can access to Canva graphics. Caption swipe files. Anything that you may need to kind of quick start in jumpstart, your social media strategy, and that is all@onlinedraya.com slash free to sign up for the free.
I love it. That's so helpful. And I know that a lot of my listeners are definitely going to take advantage of that because I mean, what a, what an amazing free resource that's so cool. You have that. So I love it. Yay. And we have been making it to honestly, It is a fan favorite. Good, good. Yeah, I would, I would not doubt it for a second.
And, uh, and yeah, I just want to say again, uh, how much I appreciate you being here. And also, because I know that, uh, your approach is an approach that my people can really get on board with and feel really good about. And so thank you. I appreciate your, your time and your wisdom. Ah, thank you so much for having me on the show.
