Ep. 146: Dealing with “Money Baggage” in Business w/Stephanie Cleary
We want to make money in our businesses, but sometimes (a lot of times) money comes with baggage.
Stories and emotions both old and new often bubble to the surface when it comes to looking at and managing our financials.
But sticking our heads in the sand is not a good business practice! So what’s a person to do?
That’s why I brought Stephanie Cleary onto the podcast to talk about why it’s often so hard to look at our numbers even though we know we need to, and what we can do to start to get more comfy with it.
Links:
Website: withstephaniecleary.com
Instagram: @withstephaniecleary
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I'm so excited to have my friend and client Stephanie Cleary on the, sell it sister podcast this week, Stephanie is so incredible and she is absolutely somebody that you will want to know if money makes you feel a certain way and you're ready to.
Stop feeling a certain way about it, right? Because you know that as a business owner, you have to look at your numbers and you want to start feeling better about being able to look at them. And she is definitely going to be your person for that. She's she's so great. I will say too, like, just as a, as an aside, um, a few years ago, when we.
Working together the first time. Uh, she was actually the one who told me about like, oh, here's how you can set up, um, investment accounts in your business, like your, your SEP IRA and all of this stuff. And I was like, oh wow. That's, that's so amazing. And, and it felt really good. It was something I didn't have in place cause they didn't really know about it.
And uh, and as we talk about sort of later in this episode, You know, ha had my own like money, baggage and fears and, and whatnot. And that was really great. And I'm so glad that she told me that. And she's also a, an amazing person to follow because she reminds you of what your quarterly tax payments are due.
And it's kind of hilarious. I, I just told her recently, I was like Stephanie, two years in a row. Like I've made my estimated tax payments. Like I did all of them. I did them on time. Thank you. You know, even though, even sometimes when somebody is your client, uh, you learn and grow a ton from them as well.
And that is. I feel about the amazing Stephanie Cleary. So let me tell you a little bit about her before we dive into the interview. So Stephanie is a money coach for anticapitalist entrepreneurs and she helps her clients tend to both their business finances and the human behind those finances. She's a certified financial planner.
Yes. But more importantly, a human fellow business owner. Over the moon about bringing a gentle, compassionate trauma and privilege informed lens to business finances. So as you can see. Amazing. Uh, just, just from her bio and you can learn more, you can find her on planet, internet at, with Stephanie cleary.com or on Instagram at, with Stephanie Cleary.
And those will all be in the show notes as well as, you know, everything else that you might need to learn about her, but definitely go check her out after you listen, because you'll be so glad you did. And. Hi, slide into her DMS and say that you found her on the, sell it sister podcast. Okay. On to the interview.
Hello, Stephanie. Welcome to the stellate sister podcast. I'm super, super glad to be having this conversation with you today. I know. Um, they're excited to be here. Woo. Yeah, I I'm actually, because I've known you a, like a long time now it feels like a long time and like, and we've worked together. And so I was actually thinking, like, I'm surprised that it's been this long since I've had you, uh, or that I've waited to have you on, like, I'm actually surprised that you haven't been on sooner, but you know what you're here now and that's what counts exactly.
And, you know, there's always twists and turns and I think now is the perfect time. For us to be having this conversation. So, yeah. It's all good. Yeah. I, I would agree. I would agree. Um, so obviously people, you know, people listening have heard a little bit about you and, uh, you know, what you do, but one of your focal points is helping.
Business owners with anticapitalist business practices. So I would love to little to know a little bit about like how you got to do the work that you do, like how that evolved and then why you decided to have that be a focal point for your work. Yeah. So I started off in my financial career actually doing, um, traditional financial planning for.
Rich white people. And, you know, like very, sometimes very which white people and decided that managing people's life savings was not where I wanted to go. And I was like, that's just way too much responsibility for me. Like literally managing their. So, um, I about faced did a bunch of other things, um, started life coaching started doing bookkeeping for people.
And then got, I dunno, maybe like two years ago got introduced to this idea of anti-capitalism and it's just like, this explosion went off into my brain of holy shit. Like this is it. Like, this is, this is my jam. And it just felt so. Rightly antithetical to everything that I had been doing in my old financial planning career of, um, you know, very, very values-based and, um, rejecting the bigger system as much as we can, you know, because we are just individual people.
So trying to take on the entire system one, it's just not possible. And two it's, uh, Can be harmful to ourselves, you know, like taking on that responsibility. Like that's just too much for one person, but I was like, but it's. Really embracing the anticapitalist ideals in our own small businesses and creating like smaller micro economies between small business owners.
I was like, oh my God, this is my jam. All of it all of the time. Thank you very much. So that's. A roundabout way of how I got turned on to, um, to anti-capitalism and have learned from some great people. And, um, and here I am, I love it. I love it. And it makes me so happy to know you so that I can send other values aligned people to you in particular, because I know that there is a lot of overlap in.
The clients that you and I both serve. And it's a lot of the people that we serve their goal is not just to like, make a bunch of money for the sake of having like a giant savings account. It's really to create new economies where we are actually funding people and causes and, and various things that are aligned with.
Our own values and where we actually feel good about spending our money, rather than just with like huge mega corporations that are very like nameless, faceless don't treat their people well, et cetera. Yeah. Cause I mean, one of the main tenants of traditional capitalism is, you know, Bring in as much money as humanly possible with as little expenses as humanly possible and have a very small pot of people pocket the difference and essentially horde the distance toward the difference between the revenue and the expenses.
It's like, well, how about we. Not do that. And like, yes, definitely take home everything that you want to take home and keep for yourself. Every key I'm putting, keep for yourself and huge air quotes, because none of us really keep. The money. Like you can't take it with you kinda thing. So like, it's always like turning over in your spending according to your values.
But like, let's, let's put it in the hands of the people that like want to actually like invest in their communities. And like, so even if I pay myself a shit ton of money at the end of the month, I'm going to be turning around and hiring other businesses, you know, small business owners or, you know, buying slow fashion clothes.
So it doesn't just like sit in my bank account and make me a billionaire and I never pay any taxes on it. So, yes, exactly. And I'm so glad that you mentioned slow fashion clothes because I, today I happen to be wearing a dress that I recently got in the mail, uh, that I ordered on Etsy from. An incredible woman who, uh, lives in Ukraine who makes linen dresses like the most beautiful linen dresses.
And they are a couple of hundred dollars as they should be as is like more of the true cost of clothing. And there was definitely a time in my life where. I would not be spending $200 on a casual dress and like waiting six weeks for it to arrive. But I feel really good. Like, I, it feels good in my body to be like, Ooh, my business makes me a certain.
Amount of money now that I can do that. And it feels wonderful to support another woman who also has a small business, even though I'll probably never meet this person face to face. Um, but who knows? Uh, it actually like, it feels really good. It feels like something I can control in terms of like crafting the world.
I want to see. And to your point, like I know that that's not solving everything. For that person, if she gets to do that job full-time and she loves it, then I feel delighted that my clients make it possible. My business makes it possible for me to support that. Yeah, exactly. And you and I are totally on the same page with the slow fashion thing.
I, um, Not all of my own clothes, but I, so a decent chunk of my own clothes. And I'm like, this costs so much more money to buy, you know, sustainably sourced, fabrics and independent design. Um, patterns and like all this other stuff, but it's like, you, you just feel so amazing when you're part of these small micro economies.
Um, yeah. Micro economy is like my new favorite word, so yeah, I'm just going to use it as much as possible. I love it. I love it. I'm here for it. And I think in terms of. Uh, the online space, since that's the space where you and I operate our businesses, we don't have brick and mortars. We don't have storefronts.
Um, but so, you know, in serving online entrepreneurs and like you mentioned, the traditional capitalism approach of just like extract as much as you can from your workers and keep the majority of the money up top and, you know, et cetera, et cetera. Uh, I feel like how that has been overlaid into the online business space has been in this culture of, um, get really cheap labor and have like arbitrary goals.
Yeah. Like, sorry. Yeah, I know. Right. Like it's, it's really like, um, I, I actually, speaking of that, like I. Pitch to be a part of this thing. I wasn't familiar with the publication. I looked and I looked at like their team page and just like from the overview, I was like, I could be wrong and I'm willing to be wrong and accept that I'm wrong.
And I hope that I am, but it appears as if all of your support staff are like overseas from where the main staff is. And to me, that flags that as like, They are probably vastly like, like the pay differential is, it's probably huge. Again, I'm hoping I'm wrong in that, but I was like, Hmm, I, this is going to be a no from me.
I just have a bad, a bad vibe about it. Um, but that's like one of the things and also picking really like arbitrary goals or just trying to, uh, accumulate as much as possible without there really being. Context for it, um, is, is really common. Are there other things that you have noticed or that like when you start to work with clients have been sticking points where they're like, I don't know, like, I, I feel a certain way about like, even making money goals in my business or what I should be striving for.
Just anything like that because of what has been common in the online space. Yeah. I mean the arbitrary, arbitrary revenue goals, definitely like the six figure seven figure, you know, 10 K months, um, which I have lots of feelings about which I'm sure we'll talk, we'll talk to that. Um, but I think also something that, that happens a lot is in terms of prices.
There's of course that whole, like, you don't charge what you're worth, which is just total bullshit because we're we're humans and we are worthless. No, we are infinitely worthy and our prices have no, no determinant on that. Um, When you charge a price, that is one absolutely based in the value of the service that you provide.
Yes. But also a price that, you know, gets you where you need to go. No. I, I, um, worked with a wedding photographer and she knew her prices were low. And we were, that was one of the reasons she came to me. She's like, I'm not quite sure what they need to be. And we were looking at her current prices and I, I was like, you know, you you'd have to show.
About 45 weddings a year to make what you want to make based on your current prices. So that's like almost a wedding a week and she was like, oh, oh no, like that. No. So when you really put your pricing, when you haven't put context around your pricing, even like it can, it can open your eyes a lot to. I'm either vastly undercharging for what I need to charge in order to pay myself and pay my team and all these things, or, oh my gosh.
Like. Charging a good amount and I don't need to be working as much as I thought I needed to be working. Um, you know, I don't have to take on is all of the clients, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So like having, like you said, really putting context to those numbers and actually looking at the numbers and not just like pulling stuff out of hats and just being like, yeah, that's, that's what I'm going to charge.
Like let's, let's actually look at that and what it means to you and how you work and paying your team and paying yourself and all of that kind of good. Yeah, I love that. And I definitely like, like, let's dive into this because this is a huge thing. And one, I know it's something that you're really phenomenal about helping your clients uncover and work through.
Um, but two, because. I feel like what has been missing in that conversation around the pricing and the 10 K months, you know, and all of that is, is that context, right? It's, it's just entirely out of context. And I think in that regard, uh, it can feel very weird and very like nebulous. And the reality is, is like, I know.
Plenty of people that, especially depending on the cost of living, where they are, um, how many people, their money is supporting, uh, whether that's like family and or their team, um, you know, just like a variety of different factors. Like a 10 K month might actually be. Not enough, right? Like, it's like on the one hand, like, it's, it can feel like for somebody who feels like they're struggling to get there, it can feel like, oh my gosh, like, how is this ever even going to happen?
It can feel really like deflating. And on the other hand for other people, like 10 K wouldn't even cover their like operating expenses. Right? Yeah. I one of my clients, um, for kind of a side gig that I've been holding on to, because I really love this client. Um, I, their rent, like they're one of the, one of their clients rents in New York.
Um, granted it's New York city, $11,000 a month for rent. Oh, my gosh, like, which just blew my mind. Yeah. I know. There's like all of those, you know, reality shows of like selling New York or selling LA. And I'm like, if I had watched those, I wouldn't have been blown away, but I was like, okay. So yeah, you know, like me, as someone living in suburban Connecticut needs a different amount of money than.
I have family that lives in Chickasaw county, Mississippi, you know, like their, their living costs is going to be different than somebody living in New York city. So, um, so yeah, when the arbitrary numbers just get flown around, like, well, that does nobody any good to talk about arbitrary numbers without personalizing them.
And. Actually looking at what you actually need to pay yourself, pay your team, you know, do all the things that you want to do. I don't know if there was a question in there. I just started talking. I'm sorry. No, no, no, no, no. That's, that's perfect. Yeah, because, um, because yeah, I just, I feel like, uh, it can be.
Really like, it can feel really ungrounded when it's just a, a number that is, um, that somehow we have deemed in the online space means that you are quote unquote successful. Um, when really it's again. Yeah. It's just like, It's just an arbitrary sort of benchmark number to say that like, oh, I've I have achieved this, which is like, fight.
Like if that is somebody's true goal, there's nothing wrong with that being the true goal. It's just like, you know, let's, let's dive deeper into why it's the goal. So now, in terms of asking questions, I would love to know if you could explain kind of the, like two aspects of. Uh, when you're working with people and you're really like looking at the numbers, you mentioned the wedding photographer, and then once you ran the numbers, she could see like, oh, I'm actually way under charging.
And I will burn myself out if I want to hit my goal. So then, like, was it a matter of, you know, did you need to. Did she adjust her goal? Did she adjust her rate? Was it a combo? And then conversely, you mentioned that some of your clients are actually doing better than they think, which I definitely want to hear more about, because I think that that is something that happens more than people realize is they're doing better than they think.
And they can actually. Chill out a bit, be more calm, like enjoy, enjoy the ride a little bit more. So yeah. Tell me a little bit about like, when you start working with somebody, um, you know, like kind of like what you're looking at and then like what your recommendations are based on what you find. Yeah. So when we first had a run, run the numbers, which is a terrible expression, um, when we first look at the number.
If it's so even to take this, this wedding photographer, um, it was really helpful. I mean, it's really helpful. I mean, I'm going to say a, to a person that even if the numbers, aren't what people want them to be, even just knowing what they are a relief. So at least, you know what you're looking at, you know, and you're not like.
Nebulous. I don't know what's going on. And it's, it's always, the devil, you know, is always better than the devil you don't or something like that. So she, when we figured out like, okay, you're, you're heading real fast down the road to burnout. It was like, okay, we actually came at it from kind of both directions that you talked about, like, okay, we are going to extend the.
Um, outlook for your goals, you know, so instead of saying, oh, I want to make, you know, I want to replace my corporate income in the next year. It's like, okay, well, let's say in the next 18 months or two years, and that even just moving that like consciously mindfully, moving that, that goal. Can one be a relief because you're like, okay, like I've got some more time.
I've got breathing space, but it's when you do it consciously that I think that's really the helpful part because if you would just kept full steaming ahead and you failed to get there, like it was an inevitable, it was inevitable that she was going to. Quote, air big air quotes, fail on reaching this goal, but it was through no fault of her own, you know, it wasn't that she wasn't trying hard enough.
It wasn't that she was putting in the effort. So when you put in all of the effort and really tried your best and you still quote, fail, That's really hard to take, but when you can kind of take away the blinders and be like, there was no way that I was going to win that game. Let's play a different game.
That's very freeing, very liberating. Um, so we were able to like, okay, like let's more intelligently. Let's set a different goal. Like let's set a different milestone and then also looking at it from a point of view of pricing and there's, I hate it when people are like, well, just double your prices. Well, one, what if you're not good enough to just double your prices?
Like let's be, I mean, she was a very good photographer and I actually don't know anything about the wedding. And I don't actually know what she ended up doing with her prices, but it's like, if you're going to double your prices, you need to make sure it's still worth that amount of money. Um, so like make sure you're still really good at your job and what you do, and the value you provide that you can confidently increase your prices, whether it's double or half or, you know, whatever, like that doesn't even matter.
But it's, you know, having that confidence that you actually can. Command those those prices without, you know, kind of shooting yourself in the foot. When you get on a sales call with someone being like, well, you know, it's however many thousands of dollars for wedding photography, but like, you know, clients can tell, obviously they can tell.
So it's coming at it from kind of both directions. I, I talk about bank money and body money. And so you got to kind of come at it from, from two different directions, like the nuts and bolts, like cashflow of things. And the, I am confident that the value I provide is worth what I'm asking. I love that.
Where am I? I'm definitely gonna have you like talk more about, you know, the body money and, and money baggage. Cause I know that's a huge part of your work, but, um, but yeah, I totally agree. Especially, uh, I know for me and my clients, it's always like whatever price. Uh, decided upon like the person who's selling.
It has to be cool with it because I could be like, I think that that thing is however much, but if you're like, yeah, I don't feel like I can energetically get behind that quite yet. Like I'm working my way there then it's like, yeah, it's going to be pretty hard to sell if you, if you can't actually confidently claim that price.
And also just like with photography. Depending on, uh, like the cost of living around you and how far you're willing to travel. It's like, yeah. There's, there's so many factors with that. Yeah. And I've, I've heard a couple of good suggestions or something around around the pricing. One was just very simple was to just practice saying that number out loud.
Maybe I heard a female, I don't know, like, just walk around the house saying 5,000. $8,000, $10,000, $2,000, like over and over and over again until it just rolls off your tongue. Like, which sounds a little hokey, like when I first heard it, I'm like, no, I was like, no, wait a second. That's actually sounds like a really good idea.
Um, and then also, like there's no rule that you just have to out and double your price, like right away. Like you still need to, like you said, feel good about it. So like screw the people that are like, oh, just double it. And it'll be fine. How about you add $200. How about you add a thousand dollars, you know, depending on how big of a, you know, jumps, we're talking here, like.
Do it within your window of tolerance. Like the minute you step outside that window of tolerance, like people know, and you're not going to feel good. They're not going to feel good. It's just going to be icky all around. So like, like push the window of tolerance, but stay within it. Like, it's, it's a called a comfort zone for a reason.
Like, you know, like you need to be comfortable on these sales calls and talking to people about your pricing and stuff. So like, That's my theory. Anyway, it's like, you don't need to make these huge jumps just for the sake of making huge jumps. Like you can work your way. Yeah, absolutely. I totally agree.
And so for that, so it's, you know, you said that for the wedding photographer, you tackled it from both angles. You got her, uh, not having to hustle so hard, like, or feeling like she had to, and you also helped her. See why she did need to raise her rates somewhat so that she could have a little, you know, more money coming in and more, uh, like have a work-life balance or harmony if you will.
But, um, for the other people where you find that they're actually. Pretty good. I'm sure that that is really mindblowing for your clients right. When they actually see like the devil in the numbers and they're like, oh, it's actually, the devil is actually not as scary as I thought. Yeah. I was on a call. Um, I don't know, a couple months ago with, with a client.
And she like, you know, we, it was probably like 20 minutes into a three hour call, maybe 30, you know, like it was. Not very far into this call. And I, we, we were talking about things and I told him like, okay, based on just the recurring income that you have, you know, not bringing on new clients, like she had a number of recurring payments that were going to be coming through for the next, like, I think six months, like just on those.
You've covered your, your you've covered your operating expenses. You've covered how much you've said that you want to contribute to your household. So you're good. Like, you don't need any new clients coming in. And she was like, wait, I'm sorry, what? Yeah. It's like, yeah, no, for like, so I like walked her through the math again because she's like, no, no, no, no.
I'm like, no, like let's shared my screen, you know, like showed her that she's like, oh, Oh, my gosh. I'm like, that was worth the price of admission just right there. Wasn't it? And she's like, yes, yes, it was. So like, you could just see like the, the weight fall off of her shoulders, you know, like that just sigh of relief of like, oh my gosh.
Like, okay. I hadn't realized I feel so much better than. You know, and it's, it's, it's a great moment on my part. I'm like, yes. Yeah. You're you're like, I just made someone's whole week. Like this is fantastic. Yeah, exactly. So she was, so then, like we spent the rest of the time, you know, talking about, um, You know, like her fun goals, like she had, like, she has really big, really big ambitions for this business.
And it's like, okay, well, now that we've laid that foundation, let's talk about those other things and what the timeline is. And if you want to, um, you know, go pedal real hard to get them, or just kind of like. Let it come as it naturally, well, you know, depending on, you know, how, how energetic people are, but it's like, you, you had said a couple of minutes ago, like you really get to enjoy the ride more when, you know, when you know where you stand and you're not trying to like hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, hustle, and do all of the selling and be on all of the social medias and send all of the emails.
It's like, no, like you can. You can just enjoy the ride and do the things that you know that you need to do to keep the money coming in. But it's not like balls to the walls. 24 7 must do all of the things, which is a lot of, it's very relieving to hear that. It's it's so relieving. And, and I like, I truly am somebody who, uh, I was always like, I hate looking at my numbers.
Like I would put it off. I, you know, the whole, whole thing until about like, maybe like five years ago. Um, And now I'm, I'm like pretty diligent about it and, uh, it actually feels really good. And, um, to your point about, you know, like the devil, you know, like I know for me, one of the things that is so important sense, I am not in the business of wanting to just like teach people how to.
More money also without of context or like, or like, you know, outside of contextualizing it outside of looking at like, you know, what do you want to do with it? Or what do you want your life to look like? How much time do you have to work? Like how much energy, you know, like to me, it's, it's not like a standalone thing.
I could do that. Like I have the, the skills to be like, cool. Like let's whip up some offers in a funnel, but if it's not going to serve the person that I don't really, then I don't feel like I'm being of service to somebody. And so I feel like for me, the, one of the biggest places. To always start is looking at the numbers and looking at like how much your offers are the time it takes you to deliver them.
Like how much room you have for more people. Like really like going through all that, because. Uh, you know, you and I both know, like math doesn't lie, like math is not out to get you. Um, it's, it's just is, and so kind of like your wedding photographer, whenever I've done that process for myself, it's always, it helps take some of the drama.
I feel like out of the decision-making process, because. I can just very clearly see like, okay, this is, you know, something has to shift in this here. Uh, and, and I get to control what that is. Like, I get to make the choice, but if it, you know, if I don't want to burn out then yeah, I I'm going to have to, like some, some things are going to need a little sugar to make it, to make it work.
Yeah. And I think you really put the nail on the head or something about like making the choice, like, so it's in, it's all out of your own agency and it's being proactive as opposed to. Reacting to, oh shit, I don't have, you know, it's the end of the month. I don't have enough to pay myself or pay my team or whatever.
Like if you're staying on top of things and being proactive about looking at your streams of income and looking at your expenses and just kind of staying on top of things, then you can see what's coming down the pike and you have time to react to it with that. Panicking or if you're like me, you panic and then you pick yourself up and you move forward, you know, you gotta, like, you gotta have that freak out.
And then like, oh, okay. Now that I've felt all of the things let's pick myself up and do something about it. Yeah, exactly. And I think too, it's like, it goes to the point of like, going back to the anti-capitalism, like, and focusing on values instead of like, should. Like somebody might be like, oh, I want, you know, actually do want a seven figure business because I really want to have a company where people are really well paid.
Like, so I'm going to think as thing, for instance, that's totally outside of like the realm of. The people you and I typically work with is like the Chani app. I don't know if you're familiar with Chani no idea what that is. Oh, it's an astrology app. I love it. Chani Nicholas, if you're listening, please, I would love to work with you one day.
She will never hear this, but if she does, if somebody knows Jenny, I would love to be your business consultant at some future point. Um, no, but I, I love her business and her business model. Wife owns, um, free from, which is also an amazing company. And, uh, I always see there, like when they're hiring and stuff and I've, um, just because I'm nosy, I'm like, Ooh, like let me, you know, see how they structure it.
And yeah. And, um, and what I really like about it is they, I think all of their employees start at $80,000 a year. They get really good benefits, like for them. Part of them growing their businesses is using the company as a place that creates the world, the micro economies, right. That like you want to see.
And so for me as somebody who like pays for that app, I'm like, yeah. And I buy stuff. I buy client gifts from free from all the time. I feel really good about it because I know like internally, uh, that part of why they want to make more money is because they are taking really good care of their people and the more money they make and the bigger they grow, that the more people they can actually employ in these really.
Uh, like phenomenal, um, equitable ways. So obviously not everyone wants a, like a large business, but I think that even then, it's like, even if you're going for the seven figure. Then you have some context and then you can get energetically excited, kind of like you said, like how, how fast you want to peddle.
Like, if you're really excited about like, oh, I do want to increase, you know, 30% this year, over last year, because I want to do X, Y, and Z. I feel like, at least for me when I know what the point is, I can like muster the motivation to be like, cool, we're doing this. And then when I have moments where things maybe don't go as planned.
I still will have the tantrum, but I feel like I can dust myself off and like, get back on the bike a little bit faster than if it just feels like that arbitrary number. Yeah. Cause like the, the whole thing with like a, you know, a seven-figure business, six-figure business, multi seven, you know, whatever, whatever, whatever, like money in and of itself is useless.
You know, like it's all, it is all just a. Um, group held imaginary construct. Like it, it really is like, it's not even that like somewhere in a vault somewhere is gold bullion. Like that's it, that's how it used to be. That's not how it is anymore. So it's just this group agreement. That money is worth what it is.
So. If you're adding an arbitrary seven figures on top of arbitrary money, like who cares, who cares? It's what that money allows you to do. Um, Simone sole is a life coach and, and marketing coach, and she talks about stewarding money and I'm like, that concept blew my mind. I was like, and like the best way I'm like, yes, like.
So speaking to your point about this, you know, these larger businesses, like, do you want a steward? A lot of money. Great, awesome. I am here for it, like stewarding it in a way that appeals to your values and lets you do what you want to do and makes the change that you want to make in the world. Like who cares about the Ethereum will imaginary bullion in not afford to somewhere, you know, like it's about the things that you can do with the money, not the money itself.
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. And I know too, you're like, that's sort of like your concept of having plenty, which is something that I really reverberate with too. It's like, you know, why do I want to have, you know, more than more than enough? Well, it's like, I have very clearly defined. The values that, that dictate, you know, where I envision that money being able to go to, and I know for me, then it's easier to be like, oh yes, this is why I'm doing this.
This is why I'm making this decision. This is why I'm choosing this path over that path. Like whatever the case may be. Um, it actually feels like something like that. Get behind in using my, my business as the vehicle. Um, like to have the plenty. Yes. I love it. I love it. I love it. So obviously, so back to, you know, bank money and body money, I know we want to talk about money baggage because it's, it is very funny how we have this collective delusion about money, but that doesn't change the fact that.
Part of why people are not looking at their numbers and might even be hesitant to like hire somebody else to help them look at their numbers is because we got money stuff. Right. Lots of money stuff. Yeah. Um, And that's okay. You know, I've got money stuff. Like, I, I don't want to say I have more money stuff in the next person, but like, this is why I do this, you know, because I have experience with the money stuff.
I'm just like picturing like these big, huge air quotes of like the money stuff and like actual baggage of like, just all of this heavy shit that we're like carrying around. Um, You know, why wouldn't we have have money baggage, you know, in our, in our society that, you know, money equals power, it equals safety, it equals worthiness, you know, three things that women and gender expansive people, you know, have just such a lighthearted and fun relationship with power, worthiness and safety.
Like, come on, like, yeah. I'd be a little bit worried about us. If we didn't have money, baggage. Cause it'd be like, well, where have you been the last, however many thousands of years? Like, what rock were you living under? Cause I want to go live there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And then, and then I think you layer on the, like, I know it's not, everybody's lived experience, but the like, you know, girls, aren't good at math.
Girls should just like, you know, stick to being creative and, and all of like all of that. Um, and a lot of that phobia around even feeling like you're capable of looking at your numbers. Yeah. And don't even get me started about creativity and math, like mathematicians. Crazy creative, but that's a whole other rant.
I know. Anyway, that's a whole other ranch for a whole other time. Yes. But anyway, um, yeah, and you know, the whole, you know, girls are bad at math, which my very. Initial reaction to that is like the programs. Do the math for you. Like there's no actual, like, it's not like you're sitting there like adding and subtracting and multiplying numbers, you know, on paper.
I'm the world's worst person when it comes to doing like arithmetic. Like I can't do it. Um, so that's, that's kind of off the table. Like there's the math has done for you, but, you know, add to the fact that like, We're taught algebra in school. We're taught calculus, we're taught history. Like no one ever gives people like basic financial literacy classes.
Um, so why would you know how to nobody has checkbooks anymore, but you know, like, you know, you'll throw that in there. Throw in the fact that I don't know the exact date. I should know this off the top of my head. Um, until the mid sixties, early seventies in a lot of places like a woman couldn't even. A checking account by herself, let alone a, a credit card or, you know, when they were starting to do, um, give credit to women, like their salaries were counted at half given half the weight as men's wear.
So it's like, no wonder, like we're kind of shy on the draw about money stuff. Like there's all of this, no other better word. Like there's all this baggage behind it. Like yeah. Again, I'd be worried about as if we didn't have it. So, yeah. And I know, I would imagine that when people first work with you or they're thinking about working with you, they probably are like, I am going to be really embarrassed.
And Stephanie is going to realize I'm dumb and irresponsible and you know, all say all of these things about themselves that are not true. Um, you know, part of why I happily send people to you is because I know that you do. Make people feel bad for their money baggage. So I would love for you to talk a little bit more about that, and I know that you have, uh, a money coaching offering that you have.
So, yeah. So tell us like, kind of what that experience is. Like, especially for somebody listening, who's like, okay, I get it. Yes. Like, I, I really do need to. And yet, like my I'm my body, my nervous system is having a little, little freak out right now. Um, yeah. So my very, very first response to if that person is listening right now, you're like, that's okay.
Like, you're, you're a little. To freak out. I would probably be freaking out a little bit too. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm on a podcast. I'm, I'm a little jacked up, you know, like it's okay. It's okay. Um, all of the space you're allowed to have money freak outs and also.
I am the last person on earth to judge anybody for any of their baggage whatsoever. You know, like I just hold such a tender space in my heart for, for anyone. Emotional stuff. Like I said, I have stuff you have, like everybody has stuff. And I'm the last person to tell people how they should feel or try to rush them out of whatever they're feeling like you, you take your, your good sweet time and give all of those feelings, all of the space that they need, because this stuff is hard.
Like it's, there's a reason that we hang on to it. You know, like we're, we're doing our best, like all of these. You know, a lot of people talk about like money mindset and like bust through your money blocks. Like there, those protective gates are there for a reason. Like we don't just block money because it's fun, you know?
Like that would just be silly. That would be absolutely silly. Like, of course there's a reason that you're scared of asking for help. You know, to, to command higher prices. Like of course you're, you're scared to, to invest in something for your business. You know, one of my favorite lines and a very good friend of mine, like we were twins in this.
We're like, we're, we're going to die alone in a ditch with our, all of our possessions in a shopping cart next to us, like. Like, that's how it's going to happen. Like if I make this one investment and it goes bad, like, oh, I'm dead in a ditch with my, with my shopping cart full of stuff. Like those are there for a reason, like we're trying to protect to protect ourselves.
So of course those things are coming up and, and you're allowed to have those. And in my mind, like anyone telling you to like, just change your mindset or just charge more, or, you know, bust through those blocks, it's like, That's just bypassing you and like, why don't we take the time to actually sit with those things and see what they're trying to tell you and give them space and really just work with them and gently listen to them.
And. And address those fears basically like address the things that are coming up instead of just trying to, like, I'm picturing like bugs bunny, like punching through a brick wall. Like, no, thank you. Like let's dismantle the brick wall or find a nice gentle way around it. You know, like none of this like busting things like.
It creates a lot of brick dust and then you kind of vacuum and it's really loud. And like, why don't we just not do that? Exactly. Exactly. It's like, we can make this a lot more gentle, a lot more gentle on ourselves for sure. Um, yeah, especially for, you know, cause I know, I know that my listeners are people who, you know, they're really.
They are committed to their business and they know that like in order to keep growing, they are going to have to get comfortable with things that are currently maybe not. Um, but I do think it, it, it is important to. Get support in a way that also is truly supportive and not just somebody who is going to take the numbers and, you know, the quote unquote, run them and then just be like, This, that and the other thing.
Right. And, and just spit out a very like cold unfeeling report. That's like, uh, you know, you, you spend too much on blahbity blah and kind of make you feel like crap. And then you're like, wow, great. I'm so glad I invested in that. Thank you. Yeah. You know, like they just hand you a spreadsheet and they're like, okay, you need to bring in this much.
You need to cut your spending by this much. And they handed over and then the person is just sitting there, like. What just happened. Yeah. I'm feeling all of the feelings. Yeah. And then, and the, you know, adviser, whoever is like gone out the window and onto the next person. Like how about we take the time to, if I tell you, okay, you need to, you know, in order for you to pay yourself and your family and your team, what you want, you have to bring in.
Two or three times more than you were thinking, would that freak out? Let's absolutely like sit with that out and allow all those feelings and see what they're protecting you from and what they're trying to keep you safe from and address those things and, you know, clear all that energy out in a gentle and accepting way and not just.
Yeah. Okay. Now go change your price on your website. Come on. Right. Just shaking, like thinking about it. Like if that was me, I would just be in a puddle crying on the floor and be like, I just wasted however much money, you know, hiring this person to help me. Yeah, exactly. And I think, you know, it's, it's that thing of like, you know, people are afraid to look and to know because of like, and you know, I say this like, uh, like in rebellious success, like when talking about like looking at the financial health of your business, I'm like, just remember these.
Numbers on a page. This does not mean anything about you. This is not, um, imply like what is possible for you? These numbers do not like control your destiny. It's literally just it's numbers. So like, just get the numbers first and then we can work through, you know, what needs to like shift in the numbers or whatever it is.
But it's like, I know for me, like literally right now I have to go in and sort my. QuickBooks expenses from last week. And I've been like dragging my feet on it because I have a few things like large investments I just recently made and it's has nothing to do. Like all it's going to show me or like what things cleared on my, on my credit card.
And then I'm going to just sort them in it. I will probably be done in five minutes flat. Why I'm avoiding it is because of the feelings of like the, yeah. The debt and the debt, or, you know, like the. Like living in the ditch with a shopping cart of my belongings and like that it, it will say something about me of like, oh, that was so foolish.
Why did you spend that much? Or you're never going to be able to make that backward. Like that is, that is the reality of the situation. And it's like, the more I just go. Yeah. Okay. I mean, sure. Maybe I will never make that back, but do I have proof that I'll never make that back? No, I've done it before, so I could probably do it again or I can lean on support to help me do it.
So, but I mean, yeah, this shit's fucking real. Oh yeah. I mean, I, I love. Doing my bookkeeping. Like I like it, it calms me down. I'm like, I love making all, like, I make my bookkeeping more complicated than it needs to be, just because that's me and I like doing it. But I still, if I know that I invested in something exactly like you, and I'm like, I'm going to see that come in.
I'm a stay and out, like that's in your mind, you know, that's silly. And yet we do it. And. And that's fine. And I know that eventually, like, I'll get there and I'll do it and then it'll be fine. But like, you just kinda like have to let those feelings, like process and percolate before you, before you can kind of get up the verb to like go in there and, and do it.
And that's fine. Like I said, like all of the feelings get all of the room and all of the space, like they all, they're all allowed to be there. Um, yeah, that's, that's my. That's my take on it anyways. They all get to be there. They all get to be there and we appreciate them all and we love them all. Yes, exactly.
Yeah. I am. I am. I feel like that's the thing is like, I am now at a point where I can like catch it and be mindful and be like, oh, I see. Like, it's just trying to. Keep me safe. Like, it's just worried about like how I'm going to feel about myself if I see those numbers. And if I have, you know, if I freak out or if I feel foolish or whatever, and then like, so it's like, okay, yeah, I see what it's doing.
And also. I want to organize my stuff. Like I don't want, I want to actually look at it and like, do what needs doing and, and, you know, complete the task and have everything current and up to date so I can actually make better business decisions and so on and so forth. So I love it. Well, thank you. And so tell 'em, I'm gonna have all the links in the show notes, but tell people where they can find you and also where they can learn more about your money coaching.
Yeah. Um, I. I'm on Instagram. That's the only social media place I hang out because I can't be bothered to do anything else. Um, so on Instagram, I am the confidence CFO and my website is the confidence, cfo.com. And you can find all of the, all of the information about money coaching on there. Um, yeah, it's all, it's all front and center.
So, um, this was so much fun. I had so much fun chatting about. Yeah, I love it. And it's, it's truly the thing where I really feel like, um, you know, A, like you said, like it, it is so important. I mean, really for like the longevity for making better decisions for not burning out, things like that. Like, it is so critical to look at the numbers and also it's important to feel the feelings.
So I'm glad that you do both. And that's why I was glad that I have you on and why I'm always happy to send people your way, because I know that you will do both and that you honor both. Yeah, of course. Thank you.
