Ep. 127: [RS Spotlight] De-Colonizing Your Marketing w/ Jackie Rodriguez

If you're listening there's a great chance that you really care about how you do marketing in your business. You want to be ethical and kind and not cause harm. But a lot of modern marketing has its roots in practices similar to what colonizers used to bend Indigenous people to their will when they arrived, intent on conquering and power. A lot of it is rooted in how the common practice of "know, like, and trust" are used in marketing. Expert, sleaze-free copywriter Jackie Rodriguez joins us in this Rebellious Success Spotlight episode to share more deeply about this. You'll enjoy how she not only explains what the issues are and how to avoid them, but what to do instead. As you'll learn, it's truly possible to honor your potential clients and run a thriving business.

Jackie is a sleaze-free email copywriter & strategist who takes a human-centered, no-fluff approach to marketing. She helps online service providers, consultants, & course creators who want to align their marketing efforts with their brand values to craft captivating content for their audience.

Links:
www.jackiesrodriguez.com/contact

Additional Links:

Rebellious Success: http://rebellious-success.com

• Want to read a transcript of this episode? Click here!

  I am so incredibly excited about this week's episode, because not only is the topic so important, but my guest is just incredible. And I know that you are going to get so much out of what she shares and what she has to say about marketing and specifically decolonizing.

  This is another installment in my rebellious success spotlight series, where I featured. Actual people, the amazing humans who I have gotten the privilege to work with in my rebellious success group coaching program. And I think I mentioned it in the episode. I can't remember, but, uh, Jackie is somebody I have actually hired to help me with some of my content and some of my emails.

  And she helped me with some edits to the rebellious success. Sales page and we have plans to work together in the future. So she is she's fantastic. Definitely go follow her after, even if you are not yet ready to hire her, yourself, even just from her content that she puts out, you will get so much value.

  So all of her info. Is in the show notes as usual, but she's, she's definitely someone to learn from if you are aligned with the, with my approach to business. So Jackie Rodriguez is a sleaze free email, copywriter and strategist who takes a human centered, no fluff approach to marketing. She helps online service providers, consultants, and course creators who want to align their marketing efforts with their brand values, to craft captivating content for their audience.

  And I will say, I know. Touch on it, a little in there, but you'll hear us talk about slow business. So if that peaks your curiosity, I actually have an episode just a few months back called in defense of slow business. That's the title. And although we explain this a little bit in the episode, I really wanted to reiterate.

  That's slow business does not necessarily have to mean slow to get results or slow to progress or anything like that because you might be listening and being like, okay, cool. Like why? Like, I, I already things already feel slow. Like Amar, Marty, maybe not where I want to be or where I had hoped to be by this point.

  You want me to go even slower? No, no, no. That's not what we're saying. Kind of like if you're familiar with like the slow food movement or there's a lot of other like slow, you know, fill in the blank, um, movements around things that very typically have been rushed have been hurried have been, um, really like a lot of pressure has been on them for.

  Intense and quick extraction. And because of that, like, especially in the case of slow food move, the slow food movement. The opposite of that is the really harmful, extractive, like agricultural practices that have led to. Climate change and a whole host of other things, right. So slow does not have to mean, oh my gosh, I'm going to be struggling forever to get my results.

  It's about, to me, it's about being very mindful and intentional about how we show up and how we impact people in ways good and bad, and being really conscientious of. And really creating sustainable lasting results for ourselves and for our clients and not feeling this intensity of capitalism. Just do whatever it takes at the expense of what is good in the world in order to get from where we are to where we want to be.

  So I just really wanted to emphasize that because I think it's really important and I feel like slow is perhaps not the greatest, um, adjective. Uh, because of some of the implications or the inferences that can come when we hear the word slow. So just want to touch on that. But also after you listened to this, I feel like you're going to have a lot of ahas and big takeaways.

  And if you really want to sink into a more sustainable, um, human humanity centered approach to building a thriving business, Definitely check out that other podcast episode, and I would also really encourage you to check. My rebellious success program, because that is the whole focus of what we do in there.

  So now without further ado on to the interview, Hey Jackie, welcome to the it sister podcast. I am so glad that you are here today to chat with me.

  Jackie Rodriguez: I am also very glad to behere and super excited. So I can't wait to start talking about all things, ethics and marketing.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Yeah. So you and I totally click on this like enough, uh, which we'll we'll get into later.

  I know that I can hire you to help me in your zone of genius. And like, I don't even have to sweat it because we're super, super, super aligned on this, which makes me feel good. Cause I'm not just about to let anyone like up in my content and my emails because you know, my values are super important to me.

  So why don't you share a bit about what sleaze free marketing ethical marketing means to you and looks like to you.

  Jackie Rodriguez: Sure. So first, thank you for that. It isn't an absolute honor that you can hand me your content without having to worry about it. And I totally know what you mean by that, because for me in my own marketing, one of the reasons why I sometimes am like, even hesitant about posting anything, right.

  Is because of that sleazy freakness and what I, what I. The way that I approach my own marketing and the marketing that I use for my clients is human centric. It's human centered. And that is what makes it to me sleaze free. And what I mean by that is in marketing and like taking a deep breath. Cause like how into it?

  Am I going to go right now? I, I know that marketing in general creates a need where there isn't. Hmm. And so when marketers start marketing and they start creating content, they're creating content to appeal to that side of you. That's going to feel FOMO and it's going to feel scarcity or scarcity, however you want to pronounce it.

  And it's going to appeal to that guilt and the shame and the nasty emotions that people constantly suggest you do. And so if you look at. On Google, how to market to my email list or how to market via blog posting, or how to market period, there will always be a bullet point around appealing to emotions using guilt and shame.

  And that is disgusting to me. And that is not human centered. If you're really centering the human that is behind the screen, right. As an online business owner. Your people are usually behind a screen. So if you're really appealing to them, then you're taking them into full consideration because they are, they are a whole human and Nolan.

  I'd hope. Like try to get me to buy their thing by appealing to a negative emotion. And so for me, a sleaze free marketing approach is human centered in, in that way. And in a way that appeals yes. To emotions, but to the possibility of good, the possibility of something that's healthy, that's feasible, right?

  That's not like out of this world, like, you know, you use this term all the time, dangling the carrot of. Whatever figure business or whatever thing that feels so far out of reach without giving you the reality of the steps you need to take to get there. Um,

  Erika Tebbens: so, uh, yeah. Yeah. I really love that. And it's such, I feel like it's such an important distinction because it is, uh, you're right?

  Like it's been so hammered home for. Decades that it's like, oh, you like make somebody feel bad. And then say like, my thing will make you feel less bad. So if you don't buy it, then you will still keep feeling bad. And. I mean, I'm guessing you would agree with me, but like that's not the vibe. I want to start a client relationship off with like, with that weird power dynamic and that deficit, like that just feels awful.

  Jackie Rodriguez: Exactly. And so on a personal level, that exact dynamic. You know, you set yourself up as an authority with your marketing, but that authority is really coming from this place of fear. That if I'm not as the consumer going to get what you're selling, then I'm fearful that I'm going to stay in the same place.

  Not move, not move the needle, whatever the case may be. Um, and on a more personal note, that really affects me because I'm going to get into it. Now.

  Erika Tebbens: I know I'm like

  Jackie Rodriguez: sweating. You want to take off my sweater. So this on a personal level, right? It makes me think about my own ancestors and our answer says ancestors in general, how colonizers came and into the lands of the native Americans of natives anywhere.

  Right. And they came with their shiny objects with glass beads, these trifle objects. That meant nothing to people, but because they were novel because they were presented as this shiny new thing, natives took it. They had never, you know, ignorant, not in a bad way, but ignorant in the fact that they had never seen something like this before.

  So they took it and traded their valuables, like gold, like corn, like things that really nourish things that they really. Th that really held value. They treated it for something that didn't hold value. And so if we fast forward, I know I just took it way back. You know, is that a leap, Jackie? No, not at all, because I feel like these authority figures in the online business space or anyone who is marketing markets, things in that shiny object way, which is where the shiny object syndrome comes from, where you're presenting a product or a service that not necessarily will help me get to that next level, but you're marketing it as such.

  And so I give you something valuable, my time and money and trust, and you're giving me back something. Nothing. That's not really going to help me. And so it affects me on a personal level because I know that my ancestors suffered through this and it affects me on a personal level because I know that if, if you were trying to market my mom, who knows, like what it feels like to be taken, you know, she's an immigrant and she struggled hard, right.

  To get to where she is today. And if someone were to market to her in that way, I'd want to punch him in the face and be like, are you kidding? Do you know what this woman has gone through and perhaps like in the online business space, there are people that have gone through similar things that my mom has dumped through.

  Or they might not right at the end of the day, taking a human centered approach really listens to that nuance and understands that there are people out there that may have experienced this, but at the end of the day, you're giving somebody like the trust, right? Like the ability to trust you versus the ability.

  I mean, versus like a shiny object thing that really didn't matter. I hope I'm making sense here.

  Erika Tebbens: No, it completely, it makes sense to me. And I think what, um, I think what is so important, it's funny. I was just having. Conversation and the DMS with somebody last night, because like I was in a mood and I had a rant about like exploitation.

  Like I was just like, sorry, it's all coming out. But like, um, and I feel like the, there is this, like usually when marketing is taught. In this sense of like urgency, like everything has to be urgent. Like you need to get them to convert. Now you need to have this happen. Now you need to make them feel like time is running out when it's, you know, sometimes time is running out.

  Sometimes there are so many spots available, but like in those moments where it's not, um, which to that end, like, like there's so much, um, incredible. Out there. And like, just things I've read or heard around that. Like, like urgency is so rooted in like white supremacy and capitalism. Like it's not our necessarily like our natural state and how like, like urgency is like, just really hard on us as humans.

  And that's something I've been trying to be more mindful of is like, The effect that like, when I'm putting pressure on myself, like where is that urgency coming from and why? And like, how is it affecting me as a human and really being like, really like unpacking that and, and questioning it. So, no, I don't, I don't think it's far off.

  Cause I think all of these historic systemic things, like they, they manifest them in so many ways and one of those ways. Business and monetary transactions, for sure. So, um, so yeah, so I love that. And I think the flip side of that then is like more of that idea of slow business, which I think can feel really scary or really counter to the like six figures in six weeks narrative that's like pet or even like six months, like.

  Um, I think it's, it's risky to show up, uh, or it feels risky to show up in the way that you're advocating. Cause it seems counter to like making money and making money now, but in the long run, it's so much better. Like you're forming like real trust, like deep trust and real relationships. And all of that.

  And I know that's a big focus of yours in terms of like building aligned community. So can you speak a bit to how, like, when you do it this other way, like yeah, you may, you might not be like getting the chitterlings like right off the bat, but you're actually creating this like deeply aligned, like sustainable kind of marketing ecosystem.

  Jackie Rodriguez: Yeah, you just reminded me a lot of like another marketing tactic that people often use, which is showing. And I know we've all seen it showing in, in stories or in, uh, posts and stuff like that. Showing how, like how many Stripe notifications you've gotten today. Cause you made X, many sales and that is cool that that's being done, but it also shows the person on the other side of the screen, your audience, right.

  You can get it and you can get it fast and it's not worth it. If it's not fast. And, um, while that's cool that other people do it. Sure. Whatever people can do, whatever they want my way of doing things in the way that I prefer to do things with my clients is much slower and they prefer slow business. And, and I don't mean slow business.

  As in you had a slow month, I mean, slow business. Stainable something that is also going to be good for you as the business owner, because this whole conversation right now has been around taking care of your audience and building trust for them, but it also has to be sustainable for you. And in order for that to be sustainable for you, you've got to know that you've got a community behind you, but they're also with you.

  And so, you know, my focus right now is on email marketing, but I've done content market. You know, as a whole, you know, social media and blog posts, then the whole strategy behind the, your content marketing. And so I understand what it, what it feels like to build community slowly with good quote, unquote ethical.

  I hate that word because it's so overused, but it's exactly what we're doing, right. Um, with good ethical marketing content marketing and. So you asked about the importance of building aligned community. And I feel like when you build that aligned community, you know, as a business owner, that you have the opportunity to appeal to them when they need to right.

  Give them value at all times, you know, that they trust you whether or not they're buying something from you, your audience vouches for you. So like, I'm pretty sure. This is your experience, especially because I know you've held the summer workshops this summer, even if no one has purchased from you and they are a part of your community, they are all for you and they can vouch for you in a way that other people's community.

  Might not be able to, because they know you because you've presented things that are not only valuable, but they are also vulnerable, not in like a manipulative, uh, vulnerable vulnerability type of way that are you're using that just to market, but you actually are doing it to connect with your audience.

  You've built a very strong community that isn't 10,000 followers, big, but such a strong community that you don't need that 10,000 followers. And now. You know, for you or for anyone, this is going to be true as well. So when it's time to launch something or to sell something, they know that they, you know, people aren't stupid.

  We all know we're being sold to, but we're no, we know that we're being sold to in a good place from a good place. We S we are more likely to trust what it is that you're selling and trust that that's the right thing for me, because for this entire time you've been building me up without asking anything in return, you know, I mean, granted, we're still a business and it's still okay to sell, but that aligned community that trusts you fully and that you also nurture and give value to whether or not you're selling something, it's such a priceless thing.

  There's, there's no like money value you can place on that, you know? I like, and it's beautiful court like unicorns and butterflies and like rainbows, but it is, it's such a, it's such a beautiful part of bins of business when you do it this way. Versus in that like scarcity mode that constantly going and hustle and, and make money now.

  And if I didn't make money in these 10 days and oh my gosh, like, what am I even worth? This is the difference between doing business that way and doing business in a more slow, sustainable way. You build your lines. And you're able to grow with them and see their growth, whether or not they purchase from you.

  And, you know, they've got your back.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. I love that. And it really it's true because, um, I was so surprised of the people who came to my summer workshops. There were like time and again, I would hear from people after the fact where they would be like, Oh, my gosh, like I took so many notes, like that was so valuable.

  And like, and then they would know like each new training they come through, they're like, I'm ready. I've got my notebook. Like, I'm ready to go. Um, like, you know, my, my wrist is going to hurt after, but it's going to be worth it. And like, but that, I mean, that makes me feel. Really good. And like, I even have people say, like, I have, I got more out of like that training then like paid trainings I've paid for.

  And like, so they are like, you're they're ride or die. Like even if they can't come to a training in the future, or it's not as training that they need. Like, I know if they see me talking about it, they will tell other people to sign up because they know that I'm legit. And I know that there are people in the online world who would be like, you're giving too much, like you're, you're giving them too much.

  You should like, hold that back. Whatever. But why? Like, I've got more though, like you, I might be giving all this, but like I still got more and it's still, it's still different. Like working together is so different than being, um, at a training and, uh, in you're. Right. Like I w uh, I I'm like very honest about like my numbers about different things.

  Like. You know, I don't have a huge email list. I don't have hundreds of thousands of podcasts downloads. All of that. I don't have 10,000 Instagram people, but like, it still works because the people who are there, like they, they believe in me. And also like that took time and it took. A lot of intentionality because there have been so many moments over the years where I'm like, if I just like, if I just crossed my own boundaries, what I get the results I want faster.

  And even when the answer is, yes, It's still a no-go I just won't do it. Like if that's the compromise I have to make, it's not worth it. And, um, but I will say so. Yeah, like it it's, it's not like, yeah, it wasn't like I never made any money for, you know, until like the last six months. Like I'm, you know, my business was steadily growing, but it grew in that slow, sustainable way where.

  Um, I think I heard this, uh, analogy for my friend Meg Casebolt like years ago that it's like a, it's like a train. Like, it takes a ton of energy to get the train up to speed on the track. But once the train is moving, it's really hard to get it stopped. And so I think that, like, that is the thing. Like, I would just encourage people if it feels really like.

  Uh, it's, I'm just like, not there yet. Like, keep, keep that in mind. Like, because eventually people will, people will invest in the shiny object people and still not get the results. And then you will still be there ready to serve them when they know it's time to hire you.

  Jackie Rodriguez: Yeah, I know. So I was, as you were talking, it reminded me of this phrase that I keep using sometimes with my clients when, not with my clients, per se, but on discovery calls when it's like.

  Well, what exactly do you mean by Cece free? Well, isn't it like, shouldn't the pain points be highlighted because that's what sells and how will I make money? And there's always this fear of how will I make money and the phrase I always give them, which I cannot believe I forgot. So I was looking at it right now because I don't like, like, I don't like my market.

  To sell trust. Like I want, I want to build it. I want to earn it. I don't want to sell it. So if you're gatekeeping the trust building, then that's a no-go for me, boss. Like I'm not going to work, but if there is no gatekeeping to that trust and we can earn your audience's trust through content, then cool.

  Then let's do that. Then let's do that in a good way, in a way that feels good. That you're not feeling like. Is this tip-toeing that ethical line is this like the good place, like, you know, situation where we're talking to each other and wondering what is ethical. If that question doesn't have to come up with the content that we're creating and we're earning their trust along the way, then so cool.

  Let's do this, but if not, then, then hold on. Um, and so it goes back to what you were saying. You know, you were talking about how some people might tell you you're giving all of your goods away. Why are you doing that? And what you're doing is you're not keeping that trust. You're not like closing the doors on trust and saying, in order for you to really know what's behind this curtain, you've got to pay me for it.

  You actually opened up the curtain and said, here, this is like really good meeting. Valuable sneak peak into what's behind the curtain. Right? And like, there's more come work with me. But at the end of the day, what you gave them was meaty was really valuable. And I've been a part of those free workshops.

  And even, you know, if I was part of your program, I was still part of your workshops because I knew that it was gonna be value packed whether or not I was paying for it. Love that. And that's why that's one of the reasons why I trust you and trusted you to join your program because you were not a gatekeeper of knowledge.

  I hate that. It was like you wanted to share your knowledge and you provided knowledge and value in a ton of ways in a variety of ways. Like if, I mean listeners, if you're not following her on Instagram, go follow because it's like every story, every real, even as funny and hilarious as they are, they provide tons of value.

  Yeah. Just wanted to say all of that.

  Erika Tebbens: Oh, thank you. I appreciate it. And also like, um, on the one thing I thought of, and then forgot, but now remember it again about the aligned community was you, I think you were there too. You were on the one training I did were like. I think it was around marketing. And I mentioned like coffee chats and it was the funniest thing.

  Cause I literally like had to pause because the chat was blowing up. Everyone was like, here's my email. Let's do coffee chats, whatever. And I was like, this is the greatest thing of my whole life. Like this is the raddest thing because. I first of all, like I'm a connector. I love connecting people. Like I, it's just one of my most favorite things.

  Um, but also I was like, I know that these people will connect with each other and whatever, like new relationships are forged trauma that. We'll likely be beneficial. Like even if none of them ever become clients directly of one another, like maybe now they're like referral partners or they're just like boxer, friends or whatever.

  But like, that is really awesome. Like, that feels really good because I know like, by leading, by leading with my values and like, w like really like mindfully and I like, you know, It's always something that I I'm conscious of when I'm putting out anything I create into the world is like all of the people who are there or, or likely, uh, all of the people they're also aligned with each other.

  And so to me, like that feels really good that like, No, we're not necessarily in community together, like inside of a closed ongoing container, like the group program, but like, even just, um, like I know, and I want you to talk a little bit about like, kind of how you do this with, um, email nurture sequences.

  Like even though it's not physically people sitting across from each other in community, like it's still building community around, like what is meaningful to you? As the human behind the business.

  Jackie Rodriguez: Yeah. So that's actually a good point that I wanted to mention. And didn't earlier, it's the aligned community that you're building is not just a, like this feel good mechanism so that you can launch to them, you know, with more confidence, it's actually, you're building an Alliance community around your values.

  So for me as a service provider, when I'm building my own community, I know that the people that I build community with. I don't have to like sit there and wonder if their values are aligned with mine, because my values are like out there very much well known. And so if you're following me that and you're around, and you're a part of the whatever marketing I'm doing for the day, like you understand what my values are and it's understood that your values are the same cause you're still around.

  Right. And so for, I remember that that workshop that you're talking about, and I knew that if I was going do. Into a coffee chat with anyone from that workshop, our values, we're going to be aligned. Maybe some things were off, but at the end of the day, we all have like the same set of values because we're following this one person who has this set of values and we love and trust.

  And so I did jump on some of those coffee chats and they were fantastic and definitely, you know, some referral partners, but more importantly, like building community for ourselves because sometimes only business can be very isolating. And so that, that was really cool. And then the way that I do that with my email marketing clients, the way that we build community is, um, especially for nurture sequence from the very beginning, I always tell my clients, I know that this is going to be kind of like a polarizing thing and we'll talk about it.

  But I would really like to highlight your values within the first or second email, because at this point, Where I don't want to say weeding out, cause I hate that term, but I we're setting the tone for that new person. That's jumping onto your list. Alrighty. A person. Nice to meet you. This is what I'm about.

  And this is the place where I am doing business from. And if this is aligned with you, cool. Come learn some more. And if this is not aligned with you. Cool. The unsubscribe button is below, you know, um, and I always like to start off with that because of that aligned community value for me, we're going to build an Alliance community together, my client and I, and in order to do that, we've got to set our values.

  Our truth and philosophy has that to be exposed and it feels vulnerable. Yes. But if it has to be there, otherwise this aligned community will be misaligned and it will be wrong. And anytime you try to say something, there will be pushback in any time you want to like stand for something, you'll get some more pushback, which is fine.

  And that's normal even within, you know, the email community. But at the end of the day, you know, that the people that you're going to work with eventually, or that you're going to sell something. They're going to be your people and he know that you sold it from a good place and that they purchased from a good place and that, you know, your values are all

  Erika Tebbens: aligned.

  I love that. I love that so much. And it's um, yeah, I think it's like, It's uh, yeah, it does feel scary. It does feel vulnerable, but like my God, is it awesome? Like the people that you end up getting to work with some days I finished, like on a call week, I just get to the end of the week. And I'm like, is this for real?

  Like, I work with the coolest people. Like I can't. I can't even believe it, but it's yeah, like it, it took, it took doing that and doing it again and again and again, and sometimes getting like funny emails from like my Barbie email, like this is like, so not aligned and I wasn't even mad. I was like, I mean, cool.

  I'm super glad that she like realized she wasn't my people. Cause I would have, it would have been a lot more awkward if we started working together and then I realized in the middle. Yeah,

  Jackie Rodriguez: exactly. Hey you, that also that brings up a good point because you know, specifically for emails, once you know that someone has hit the unsubscribe button, you know, That it's for the best.

  And you're not going to sit there behind the screen and wonder crap. What did I do wrong in this email? Or did I say something wrong or what could I have done better? Or, you know, like the immediate anxiety that comes up, you were doing this from. Your values and they have been set in place. You have set the tone from the very beginning.

  So there is no freak out at this point. It's just like, all right, good riddance. Like we are not going to be a mind. Something else that I wanted to mention is around aligned community and trust. Whenever you as a business owner, partner with someone else and recommend someone else's services, that is a huge deal for you for your community.

  Um, cause I've already, I know. Your values, right. Erica's values. And I know that Erica will never partner with someone who has shaky values or whose values don't align with her own. So Erica has chosen to, you know, back somebody else or has, uh, is doing a collaboration with someone else or is like doing a workshop with someone else.

  I know that the someone else is the real deal because they've got your support and the same for any business owner out there. If your values are. Known. If you have set the tone, whether that be via email or any other kind of content marketing, and you are collaborating with somebody, then your audience knows to trust them.

  If you, you know, so like just it, like your values play a role in every single piece of your business, including your marketing and building that aligned community. That's going to trust you. Vice

  Erika Tebbens: versa. Yeah. I love that. Thank you so much for. For mentioning that because it's, uh, yeah, it was something I hadn't thought to bring up, but it's, it's so true.

  Um, and, and yeah, and there have been times when, after the fact I've, you know, new information has come to light and I'm very transparent. Like, Hey, I don't, you know, no, no drama, but like, I don't co-sign this person anymore drama. And like, but you know, just because it's yeah, it's, uh, it, it means like the.

  Aligning with, with values is so important to me. Um, and I know going back to making business sustainable for you, you have done some adjusting to your own business this year to make it more sustainable for you. You know, kind of focused in more on email now. So why don't you talk a little bit about that shift and then like, how, if people have questions about creating the types of email that you're talking about, like how they can chat with you about it?

  Jackie Rodriguez: Sure. So, um, you know, we talked about creating a business that fits your lifestyle and that was sustainable for you. And, um, My toddler is turning four soon. He's starting preschool. And we have, you know, even before this, what do you call it? This panini we had considered homeschooling him, um, just for a variety of reasons.

  You know, panini came along and kind of solidified those plants. And so I am going to homeschool my toddler in the mornings, which means that now my work time has been cut short. It has been cut by half. And, you know, in thinking about those things about that kind of lifestyle switch that is happening soon and about my own strengths and what I prefer to write, I truly love.

  Emails. When I was working with my clients, doing content marketing, I love creating their blog posts and I love creating social media posts and repurposing content and all that jazz. But it's in the emails that you have. I know I've talked to you about this before it like someone has given. Explicit consent to come into their lives, into this, you know, intimate part of something of theirs.

  Right. And so, you know, okay. Jackie really is just an inbox and someone entered an email address. Yes. But now your emails are coming in to notifications on the phone. Into, like something that they've given you permission for versus like social media, where you hit following, you know, that you're going to scroll by their content.

  This is something more intimate. And I enjoyed the intimacy and that's a place where I know that I can build and grow aligned community. That's a place where I know I can work with one of my clients or all of my clients and establish. Your values, establish your philosophy, your truth. And then we can move on from there to, you know, establish more things like, you know, the value that you want to bring to them, what it is that you bring to the table, what it is that you do.

  And then we continue on from there and we can have like a solid relationship. And of course you can have a solid relationship on social media as well, but that's just not, my emails is like that intimate place where I absolutely love to have. Conversations and, and, um, established community. And so putting two and two together, what I decided to do and to shift my offers, I was doing, you know, content retainers on an ongoing basis.

  Now I've done two things differently. Um, for my nurture sequences, we're doing it in an intensive format and, um, To address something that we said earlier, where like, you know, marketing is like this urgent need, you need things now. But the reason why I'm doing an intensive is not because of the urgency and needing it now it's because it fits my lifestyle.

  I have this set amount of time to work. So this is a set amount of time that I, that I can offer for an interest sequence. And then for newsletters, I switched it over to a recurring insensitive, thanks to enter her and her recurring incentive model. I love that. And because are newsletters and they are recurring once a month, that's what it looks like.

  It's still done in sense of format, but something that happens every month because it aligns with my values, but also my lifestyle. And I think you right, because if it weren't for the group that I was in with you in rebellious success, I wouldn't. Been able to confidently quote unquote and doing your coats rebel against the way things are done and just doing it this way feels so much better.

  Erika Tebbens: I love that. And it's so funny because you're the second person to, like from the rebellious success spotlights to mention hunter and I love her hunter and island welling, the agent, she she's so rad. I just, she's one of my closest online friends and she's fantastic. And I love that. And it's funny too.

  With the, um, I actually love intensives too. And for me, I think it's my ADHD brain. I love like the getting in and getting out, like, it really holds my attention. So, yeah. And that's something I had to realize for myself as like, oh yeah, that's actually. Yeah, it's not, it's not the urgency. Like it fits my schedule because I have a limited schedule too.

  And it just feels really good to be like, cool. We get in, we get out, we're done. Like, it's just, I, I love it. And there's probably some

  Jackie Rodriguez: tension. Yeah. A hundred percent do like 25 here and like 30 minutes the next day. No, I got to do it all now or it's going to like drag out. So same,

  Erika Tebbens: same. Yeah. And, um, but yeah, but, and I'm sure there are other people who would be like, Oh, my gosh.

  That's, it's like way too much. I can't, you know, I can't focus for that long or whatever, but, um, but I feel like, like you said, like that it kind of goes into the whole philosophy of rebellious success is finding what works for you. Even if other gurus say that you should be doing something else, it's like finding.

  The best fit for you to have that sustainable. Growth over time and like art, the first thing we always kick off with is our truth. Like really coming back to our truth, which one of the other interviews I did, um, one of the other women, she said like her, her main takeaway was her truth. Like she printed it, it's on her wall next to where she works.

  So it's. It's been fun that we've been talking about all of this, but I loved working with you. And what would you say, like for anyone listening, like what was like your biggest takeaway or your thing that you would just like want to impart to somebody else? If they're like, I don't know if this is the right fit for me.

  Jackie Rodriguez: Um, can I rebel and say two things instead

  Erika Tebbens: of just one for absolutely. So

  Jackie Rodriguez: to be completely transparent and honest, and I know that this is going to be the case for someone out there when you join a group program. You in the back of your mind, you know, that not everyone in that group program is going to participate.

  So, you know, there's going to be like the one person that talks more and you're going to be here. You're going to know that there's going to be just a few people that are going to give you feedback. That is not the case here. And that is what I loved about. First of all like about your program, but also about you, we just talked about building Alliance community and that aligned community joined this group.

  Right. It was part of those community, those community members that were part of your lens community joined rebellious success. So everyone was present. And I love that because you, like, I got to learn a little bit about. Business and just like the different kinds of businesses that are out there that I had no idea.

  People even did those things. They do them and everyone has a. At the very beginning, you set guidelines to feed back and how, you know, like if no one's asking for feed rag, don't give it. It's just like a Ben session. Cool. But you know, everyone followed those guidelines and we're okay with them because again, aligned values.

  But the feedback that you did that I did receive from the community was spot on and it was like amazing. You know, when you go into group programs, you also wonder if the feedback you're going to receive from those group members will actually be beneficial if, or if it will be something that's not truly something that you might need, but everything was a hundred percent beneficial.

  And everyone had really awesome things to say. So one takeaway the community is an Alliance community that you have been building and they are. Can I say this

  Erika Tebbens: bad-ass

  Jackie Rodriguez: there's such a bad ass, like business owners. And I w like, I hate that our last call was yesterday because now I'm like, what am I going to do without them? But whatever, like, we've connected already, but it's, they're such, they were a group of such amazing human beings that have such like knowledge and bad-ass theory behind them.

  You know, that it's like a community. You want to be a part of that's the first. And then my second takeaway was, um, your, your entire framework. Was it a big deal to me. And every time that I watched one of the acronym

  Erika Tebbens: thrive. Right? Yeah.

  Jackie Rodriguez: So truth, even when starting with truth, I remember, um, like writing it in my notebook and being like, all right, I need help with this because I can't properly articulate what my, what my truth is.

  And that is what shocked me. Like, can I say, get revenue's stuff? I know I tripled my revenue from the moment I solidified my. Okay. And this isn't, I don't want to talk numbers cause this isn't like a scarcity thing. This is more of how important knowing your value and knowing your values, both of those things are different.

  And knowing that is like such a big piece of your business growth and being in that murky middle of business, I feel has a lot to do with not knowing. Really not knowing what your truth is and what value you bring because of that, like truth of yours. And so I love that. That was the very first thing that we did in your group, because that was the very first thing I had to be faced with it in the murky, middle of my own business and be like, all right, girl, we got to talk about what the hell your truth is.

  Like, what is it really that you're bringing to the table? What is it why like, what's going to wake you up in the morning. Because up until that point, I was like, Yeah, I'm just writing content for people. Yeah. I have a way of doing this. Yeah. I like ethical marketing. Yeah. I don't want to be sleazy, but what really is my truth?

  They can, where is it coming from? And it's coming from that place of being the colonized and having my ancestors, being the colonized people and having that like generational trauma from the shiny object syndrome, garbage. And knowing that I don't want that to be the place where I'm writing for my clients or writing for.

  Erika Tebbens: No, it's so great. And thank you so much for all of that. And it's so nice to hear and yeah, and I think, you know, in, in terms of like with the, with the revenue, like you said, like, it's, it's not about like, even with numbers, like it's, it's always, so w like weird and subjective, because like an amount that is like, A lot of money for one person might not be enough to cover, you know, cost of living.

  It's so subjective, but I think the fact that you mentioned like it, that it tripled because that you looked at like your values and your value and like really making sure all aligned and kind of, and having that like moment where you had to really look inward and be like, I need to make some changes and.

  I'm sure there was a level of like, that's really scary. Is everything going to collapse that I've already built, but like, you kinda like went through it with the support of the community. Like you walked through that fire and then you came out on the other end and it's like, it's not just that you're making more money.

  It's. You're doing what you really love in a way. You love to do it with people you love to do it with. And like that is literally like when I give the components of like my definition of a thriving business. That's all of it. That's exactly it. So that makes me something to that

  Jackie Rodriguez: you're doing all of that with confidence is the biggest deal in for me right now, where I'm sitting right now.

  It's the confidence piece. I get to work with people that are. Doing what I love with values that are aligned to me in a way that is that I'm confident in doing. I can say my price now without like shrinking in my chair. I can, I can, you can ask me, what do you mean by sees free marketing? And I can tell you, and I can tell you why that even matters to me in the first place.

  And I can tell you what it means to me that my ancestors had to go through that crap, you know? And I can tell you these things, I can articulate it with. That is a huge shift for me on a personal level, because whereas before I was like hiding and I wasn't saying anything and I was like, I'm just like, yeah, I'll do it.

  And they'll do it for this price because, you know, whatever, I can communicate, communicate my value to you or even what my value is truly worth. And now that I can, it just feels so much more sustainable and easy. And. Relax, and I can just do it. And if you don't like my value school, man, we don't got to work

  Erika Tebbens: together.

  You know, like that's fine.

  Jackie Rodriguez: You know, it's, it's just, I loved it. And I loved seeing that shift for others in the community as well, and growing more confident in their pricing and their truth and the way they, they like maneuvered through difficult client situations or difficult like questions that they encountered.

  I remember a few. And then just doing it with confidence. And I truly enjoyed seeing that.

  Erika Tebbens: I love that. Yeah, me, me too. It makes, it makes my heart so happy, but thank you so much. Thank you for your time. Thank you for your expertise. I have really loved having you and I know people are going to get so, so much value from this, um, all of Jackie's links and info and everything will be in the show notes.

  So be sure to go check her out. Thank you, Jackie.

  Jackie Rodriguez: Thank you so much.