Ep. 085: How to Speak Confidently & Stand in Your Power w/ Megan Hamilton
Whether you're showing up on IG Stories or giving a training or talk, public speaking can be terrifying! But it's a really vital skill in the world of business, even if you're only speaking to a few people. A key part of growing your business is growing your visibility, but this counter to what we're often taught: minimize yourself, be quiet, don't draw attention to yourself. But in this episode speaking expert Megan Hamilton provides strategies and mindset shifts to help you feel calm and confident when showing up for your audience.
BIO:
Megan Hamilton is a speaking, visibility and confidence coach for women. She's a classically trained actor and a singer/songwriter with 5 CDs who's toured across Canada and into the United States. Her unique background combined with 25+ years of performance experience bring a unique and proven approach to speaking. She lives with her husband, kid and 2 pets in Kingston, Ontario, Canada. You can get her free guide to public speaking on her website at ubuskills.com.
LINKS:
www.ubuskills.com
www.twitter.com/ubuskills
www.instagram.com/ubuskills
www.facebook.com/ubuskills
OTHER LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED TODAY:
Your Next Big Thing Intensive: http://bit.ly/nbt-intensive
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Grow marketing culture and sketchy MLMs have given modern business a bad reputation. It feels harder than ever to succeed as an entrepreneur, even though we've got an abundance of info and tech, right at our fingertips. If you feel frustrated, running your business, stress over your sales schools or are baffled by marketing strategies, you've come to the right place.
You deserve to run a successful sustainable business without spamming all of your friends or wasting time and money on marketing gimmicks. This is the sell it sister podcast, and you're going to learn how to make more money without complex systems or sleazy sales tactics. I'm Erica and I teach highly motivated female and gender expansive entrepreneurs that selling doesn't have to suck.
I've been running successful businesses and teaching others how to sell smarter, earn more and create raving fans for over 15 years. And I'm excited to share what I've learned with you. If you want success without truly serving your clients profits without any passion or the next get rich quick scheme, I'm not your gal, but if you're all in as an entrepreneur, want to make a difference with your work and are ready to run a business.
You're proud of. Thank get ready to sell it, sister. I know you want to grow your business because let's be real who doesn't. But the reality is is that if you don't know your business persona and you don't fully know the stage of business growth that you're in, you might accidentally waste a lot of time, money and energy focusing on the wrong things in order to get your business from where it is to where you want to be.
And if you know anything about me, you know, I am obsessed with the show, parks and rec, which is why I created a really fun and free quiz to help you figure out your parks and rec biz persona, which will help show you exactly what you should focus on for your next steps of business growth. So to take the quiz, you can head right on over to bit dot L Y.
Forward slash biz growth quiz to find out your parks and rec biz persona, and then get custom advice from me based on that with what you should focus on next for your success. On today's episode, I'm speaking with Megan Hamilton of UBU skills. That's the letter U the letter B the letter U skills.com.
And you can find her on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter at UBU skills as well. Uh, plus she has a free public speaking guide that folks can get when they subscribe to her newsletter, which can be found on the homepage of her website. Again, you be, you. The letters, skills.com. So about Meghan, Meghan Hamilton is a speaking visibility and confidence coach for women.
She is also a classically trained actor and a singer songwriter with five CDs. Who's toured across Canada and into the United States. Her unique background combined with 25 plus years of performance experience bring a unique and proven approach to speaking. She lives with her husband, kid, and two pets in Kingston, Ontario, Canada.
And I am really excited about this conversation with Megan because a lot of times entrepreneurs really, really struggle with visibility. And speaking and being able to show up and be vulnerable, but it's so important when it comes to sales and marketing. So even though, you know, we're not talking about like, uh, you know, necessarily during these COVID times, like going out on stage and being like a paid keynote speaker or anything.
What Megan and I are chatting about here. And the tips she give are going to help you show up better wherever you market yourself, whether that is on Facebook, Instagram, um, just speaking to, you know, if you have a closed Facebook group on sales calls, any of those places. So I don't want you to think, even if you're like, I don't want to be a public speaker still listened to this episode anyways, because it is amazing.
And you are going to learn a 10, okay. Onto the episode. Hi, Megan, thank you for joining me today on the sell it sister podcast. It's so great to have you.
Hi Erica. I'm so happy to be here. Thank you for having me.
Yeah. So you have a really cool background, as I talked about in the intro clip to this episode.
So how did. You ended up going from classically trained actor and singer songwriter to doing what you do now. And also that's so funny. Okay, cool. That used to do that. I love that.
Well, I still do. I mean, when I can find the time than I had, then I, uh, well, I'm, we're not performing right now, but yeah. So I went to theater school and thought I was going to be an actor and was for a little while.
And. Moved into sort of producing and music. And then I did that full on. Like that was, that was where my passion was for quite a long period of time. And then we moved, I started this full-time job at a university. I had a baby things like that. And I was finding that I wasn't feeling like I didn't have the same amount of time for music that I normally would.
And I was noticing that the students. In the program where I worked were doing these competitions. And I started to think about my theater background and all of the stuff we learned when we were in theater school, stuff that we would say to each other at the time, you know, like everybody should really know this really important things about just like how to find your voice or how to use your voice carefully.
So
I
asked who was helping the students. Learn how to present in these public speaking competitions that they were doing. And nobody was, so I got it in my head that I wanted to try that. And I pitched that and the school went for it and that's where everything started. And so I had put together this, this little sort of training module that I would do with the students and like, I would leave feeling.
Like I had blown their minds, first of all, like they were just like, wow. And I would be elated for hours afterwards. I just feel so good. And then I was like, this is not hard. And it's not rocket science. Like this is, this is pretty easy stuff. And so I started to do it more and more. And then two years ago I launched UVU skills and started to work with.
One-on-one clients and moving into sort of different realms and modules of training people, just how to use their voices. I
love that. And how did it make the jump from students to working with entrepreneurs a lot now?
Well, you know, that's sort of happened organically and once I started. Once I became an entrepreneur in sort of a bigger way than just sort of working in this one place and do it.
And specifically we, with these smaller groups and opening up and meeting other entrepreneurs and realizing, Oh, it's not easy for people to just hop on alive or make videos to talk about what they're selling or, you know, do a promotional video, or even just, you know, say hi to people and just. Show people what they're like, because I think that's what I know when I want to hire people.
I want to see them in action. I want to know that I'm going to connect with them and resonate with them. And you don't always get that from scripted pictures. And so I started to work with entrepreneurs who were feeling like it was really hard to turn the camera on and. No, not even just be live. Cause I still find being live difficult sometimes I'm like, okay, I got to psych myself up for this.
Cause if you make a mistake, it's there. But, um, yeah. And so it sort of happened naturally where it was a bit of word of mouth. And then, and then me also realizing. Oh, like I have to do this too. I can't just like tell other people to do it. I actually have to start being more present online. And so I was doing it as I was showing people, the mechanics behind it that like how to calm down, how to use a full voice, how to feel comfortable and confident when the camera's on, because that's really difficult for a lot of people.
Yeah, definitely. And I. I know we were chatting before we hit record, but I think, you know, part of a big part of why I wanted to have you on is because people really like for the most part are. Terrified of showing up just as themselves. And, uh, and as you said, like, you want to get comfortable with people and video, even if it's just Instagram stories is such a great way to get a sense of a person because you know, now it's like, We all have competition.
So people aren't necessarily looking at, you know, who is the best, because there are a lot of people who are excellent. And a lot of times like the most well-known person or the quote unquote, best in the industry is going to be cost-prohibitive to work with. So you're like, okay, there's these five other people who I know are in the range that I'm comfortable, you know, investing in.
But like, if I'm going to be spending. Three months or six months or whatever with this person, like, I want to know that we are going to connect well, and then it's easy to do that on, you know, Instagram or Facebook or just wherever. If they have a podcast, they've been a guest on podcasts. They have been any videos on their website, anything like that.
It's just going to allow us to get to know them so much more easily, but people. Are like, I, I don't even know how to approach that. Like, I feel so exposed. What are, you know, what are people gonna say or think or feel about me? Uh, so what is the first, like when you're working with somebody, what is that first hump that you kind of have to mentally get over with them so that they're comfortable doing the rest of the work that you guys do together?
So we start, I have a four parts system and it's, it has to be in that order for specific reasons. So we always start with breathing withstanding, sorry, we always start with, I start with breathing, but we start with standing and so. I teach, uh, standing in the Alexander technique and I had, are you familiar with
sander?
Okay,
so, so it's, he was, uh, an actor in the late 18 hundreds. In Melbourne, he was doing, you know, really big shows and he was finding that he was losing his voice. And so he, because we didn't have video cameras, he would actually stand in front of a mirror and sort of mimic himself, doing his role to find out physically what he was doing to make him lose his voice.
And so this started this sort of understanding of physiology on his part that led to his real passion, which was. Literally figuring out how to organize your body in space so that it's optimal. And yeah. And so it's, it's, it's an easy system and I'm not an Alexander coach, but do you have permission to teach this specific way of standing?
And it also translates to sitting and so. You learn how to carry your body. And it's sort of this ongoing process of small adjustments and, and an awareness of your body, but it, it holds you up and it's comfortable, but it gives you a physical power that people just go, Whoa, and you're not even doing anything.
You are just standing. Like, you've just organized your body in a new way. And, and, you know, there's lots of things you can think about. So your energy is flowing a little bit more freely. You can take deeper and stronger breaths. It supports a big deep voice, all of these things, but physically you're just taking up more space than you might have otherwise.
And so, you know, I tend to work with women and we are used to. Trying not to take up so much space. Right? So, and there's lots of reasons for that, which are super valid, like, um, fear of violence. Um, being told that you're too big or like all the different things that people have to go through, but what happens is over time, you try to take up less space.
And so your shoulders might round you sort of crunch into your self and that's an allow. Your core center too, to open up, to be able to support this, this breadth and this strong voice. And so even just the idea of rolling up, like rolling up into a straight spine, it's a, it's super vulnerable for people, but it's also like physically transformative people are like, you, you just sort of can't even they roll in front of me and I just go.
It's just a completely different experience. And so even just starting with that and realizing that you can have this big presence just by doing something as simple as standing in Alexander, that can be that's, that's a really good, strong point for people because they see themselves totally differently.
That is
really interesting. I, so I used to do theater just like in high school, in college and stuff. Not, not professionally. Um, but I, I'd never heard of that. And I, you know, obviously there's like, you know, you've got to stand up straight and you have to like speak from your diaphragm and, and all of those things.
Um, but it, it is really different or like, it does make a difference because I know I've T I have the worst posture I have to, I catch myself all the time. I'm like such a Hunter and everything, but when I'm presenting, actually, interestingly, just this morning, I gave a presentation for a local. Um, like large women's networking group in the area that I'm in, which you know, is supposed to be in person, but then it was virtual.
And even like the desk I'm sitting at now, I put a box under my laptop to lift it up so that I could be more upper, you know, the whole thing. Oh yeah. So that I can sort of, you know, I can command that, that presence. And, um, just to get my point across more, like more easily and more clearly, but it does feel like.
I'm totally blanking on the woman's name now, but the one who has the Ted talk about like power we're posing, like
yeah, yeah,
yeah. Oh
my gosh. Now I'm blanking on her name too. I can picture her.
I know I can picture the cover of her book and everything. Yes, yes. Amy Petty. That's right. Um, but it, I mean, it really like, yeah,
it, it
actually, it makes such a difference, but I love that you touched on the point that we, for many.
Like very valid reasons. We've been conditioned that like, that is not the energy that we're supposed to bring to a space. And I think the other thing, um, that I've I've had to work on myself is like really feeling into being comfortable, being seen as like an expert, because I feel like we want to minimize.
And if we're like, Oh, I'm here and I'm teaching you about this. It's like, I know for myself, I've had a lot of fear that somebody will come along. I don't know who this mythical person is. I have in my mind, but we'll come along and then like criticize me or be like, well, that was wrong. Or, or no, like this also works like all these, you know, ego weird ego, like mean girl fantasies in my mind.
Um, kind of like the, um, I equate it to like the, who do you think you are? Like, if you're going to stand strong and speak boldly, it's like, well, who do you think
you are? Yeah. Who do you think you are? And it's not. And so, you know, that is a huge struggle for a lot of people. And again, I'm mainly working with women.
And so, uh, and I know it's the case for me as well. A lot of people have inner voices that mimic. Previous people in their lives who have shut them down before. So ex boyfriends and girlfriends come up a lot. Um, parents, teachers the mean girls from grade six, right? Like, you know, I had this conversation with people where I talk about, I remember being in gym class and everybody getting changed and, and, you know, the thing was to talk about how fat you are.
Yeah, none of us were fat, but like, that was how you fit in. And so over time that became the story that I believed in my head was I'm fat. Right. And like, yeah. So we start to believe these things and we, we hear these inner voices and they stop us from doing things even now. I mean, I'll go to right, like I'm a musician as well, and I'll go to write a song and I still have this one ex-boyfriend who just thought like would never take my musical ideas seriously and always thought that like he knew who the best, uh, bands were.
And I think. A lot of women who've, who've gone out with, uh, men can probably run, right? Like the idea. Yeah. Like whatever, you know is not as cool as whatever I know, but, you know, and I'll come up with this idea for a song and I'll, and then I just hear like his voice going really. Right. Really? Yeah. I don't know.
And then I'm like, fuck you, because that's where I'm at now. I'm just like get out of my head, which is great. I mean, it bothers me that it's still like happens, but, and it's the same with, with getting up and speaking. I mean, I had a client once who was taking, um, Beta blockers because she hears her ex-boyfriend in her head and she used to give lots of presentations.
She hears her ex-boyfriend her head talking about her voice and how stupid she sounds. And she, she can't, you know, while she could not at that point get past that. And so she would have to like take drugs to be able to calm down and do her job because of this one dummy in her past. And so, and that's a lot of it too.
I mean, it can talk about the four steps. So it's standing, breathing, speaking, and reading, and then there's like mindset stuff, and then there's like the doing right. So the fifth step is taking all of that and just, and stepping out into the void and like, And trying, because, you know, you can learn all of these things, but ultimately you've gotta be out there practicing.
And so you take that first Facebook live and you just go for it and you don't, you've just, you decide that no matter what you're going to do it. And even if it's just being live for a minute, talking about whatever. Knowing that people may not even come on or how far into it, like, people may not know that you're doing it, but you're trying it just to get the mechanics of it and just to be there and showing up for yourself and being present and then deleted if you need to, but know that you did it and then your first one's done.
And then everyone past that is just like a little step up, closer and closer towards feeling really comfortable. I mean, I'm on. Videos a fair amount. You're on videos, a fair amount. But was it comfortable for you at the beginning?
No. No. And I, I mean, well, okay. So yes and no, like, I feel like, I will say, like you said, the doing so way back when I was in sixth grade, I had a teacher, she looked like she could have been like Dolly Parton's older sister.
I remember her playing a say, Ms. Dyer. And she would do this thing where every Monday we would have to select an article from that weekends, newspaper, like the Sunday paper, whatever. And then on Friday we would have to present it and it could like, it was not that we had to memorize it verbatim, but we had to know it well enough that we could like, hold it.
But we had to basically present on it and, you know, with, without just reading straight off the page, um, and the beginning of the year, I was terrified. Like every Friday it was like every day that got closer to Friday, it was just dread. And I like most people, I just, the idea of public speaking was terrifying.
And to people who know me now, blink, you probably will not believe this, but. When I was in sixth grade, I was pretty shy, very quiet. I only had like a couple of friends was very different than I am now. And by the end of the year, I, it was like nothing. It was like, Oh, okay, Friday's coming up. Great. I'm just gonna present whatever.
And I, like, I literally owe her so much of the future trajectory of my life because. Even though I didn't immediately become like more confident in every aspect of my life. It showed me like, Oh, I can do this, you know, for 36 weeks in a row of a school year and not die, nothing horrible happened, you know?
And, um, nobody like made fun of me or whatever, and it was, it was totally fine. And so I think now, like there have been times whenever it's a new type of thing, like. The first time I ever spoke to somebody group with like a signature talk. I was very like, I have to hit every word. I was just, I was like super in my head about it.
And I think back now, and I'm like that I did not like. I delivered good info, but the delivery wasn't yeah, it could be,
but I did it.
Yeah. But I did it. And so, and every time after that I gave that same signature talk, like a bunch of times just, and every time I would do it, it was like, I could use my note cards less and I could, you know, show up better in my body.
And, and like, but every single time that I go out and like, I do a new thing that is sort of, you know, vulnerable or like exposing, right. Um, it all, like, it always feels weird. And the other thing, like, I feel like people should know is I have yet to do any speaking thing, whether it's presenting, whether it's being interviewed on a podcast or anything.
Every single time, I will like stew over it for a few days and be like, Oh, I should, I should have said that differently. Or, Oh, I forgot. I was going to mention that or God, that was kind of a dumb thing, you know, like I will stew over it and I just had to tell myself, like, it's cool. It happened, like, let it go whatever.
And so there's not like. I feel like that, like evil, inner voice, like it never a hundred percent goes away. You just have to keep being like, okay, like it is, it is what it is. I didn't say anything terrible. I just, you know, it's something to keep in mind for next time.
Yes. Yeah. And I mean, I say the same thing.
I I've been doing this for 25, you know, uh, plus years at this point in various capacities, getting up in front of people and either doing my words or somebody else's words, and I'm still. You know, I got to go through the motions ahead of time. I got, I have to go and I have to do my deep breathing and I have to get into the right head space.
And I mean, the cool thing is now I know what to do. Like I know what gets me prepared. I know that if I just keep procrastinating and don't do my work ahead of time, then it's not going to go very well. And so like, I, I, you know, I build that into my schedule. I I've learned how to do that. And again, It's all from practice.
So like nobody gets up maybe, you know, and he's always my favorite example, Barack Obama would be like,
okay.
Yeah. Cause he would give three speeches in a day, you know, like he would be, and he was so good at it. For me, he's probably one of the best ever of just getting up and extremely confidently and relatedly getting up and giving.
A speech about something and, and also, you know, talked about important things and had had a lot of ethics thought anyway.
Oh, like,
yeah.
Like, um, like inspirational, like that's the word I think of, like, he wouldn't just talk, like, you'd be like. Oh, my you'd be like hanging on every word. You're like, yes.
And you want him to be your best friend? You want to like, hang out with him and like, you know, that he would be cool to talk to, you know what I mean?
He wouldn't be, but the thing is, it's not that he, he wasn't just getting up there and just. He was prepared. He either had a teleprompter in front of him that we could not see, or he had absolutely prepared ahead of time and was, you know, incredibly good at quick memorization and knew all the phrases so that, you know, muscle memory within his face.
Would start to say these things over and over again. So he wasn't searching for the words in the same way that we might be if we were delivering a new presentation or as you say, like a signature, a signature presentation, where if you've done it 10 times, it's you're like, okay, cool. I know what I'm doing.
Like this may be a room that I don't know, but I know exactly like what I'm going to say and how I want to say it. And I can riff a little bit and read the room. Uh, But the first time you go and do that is a totally different experience. Right? And even again, if you've, if you've done things, as you say, or as, as I was just saying about him, like, you know, 50 times things get easier as you practice them.
And so, and the, and the cool thing is too, where you may try something new, you still have the benefit of knowing. That you can do this, even just the speaking part, you know, you can do that. And you also know, like, if you make a mistake, it's not that big of a deal. You just sort of move on from it. Whereas sometimes before you get a chance to make a mistake in public, you're just th th that's the worst thing you could possibly think could happen is making a mistake, saying the wrong thing, having to correct yourself, you know, mispronouncing a word.
Yeah, I can get so hung up on those that we just don't. We don't even put ourselves
out there. Oh yeah. I um, so you know, anyone who listens, listens to this podcast regularly knows like, I am not a perfectionist with this podcast. Like I want the sound to be good. Cause I listen to a lot of podcasts and I hate when like the sound is crap, but other than that, like, I don't really, I don't really care.
Like I want the content to be valuable and useful and relatable. And like, so recently when I was batch recording, you know, it's, COVID times we're all home. And like, my son is doing virtual schooling and the printer is in my office. And like all of a sudden. Like printer, just our scoping. And I'm like in the middle and I'm like,
screw it.
I'm not, this is like real life.
Like, it's not like the printer is drowning out what I have to say, whatever. It's just going to be like background noise for 10 seconds. Yeah. But I, and I even commented. I was like, Oh, well there, you know, there, it goes like the printer, like my son is printing something and.
Because I think about, there are some podcasts that are like huge. Like we're like the, the people make, you know, they like live off of like sponsorship money and everything. They're huge podcasts and they're like goofy and they're ridiculous. Like it doesn't, it's not like a perfectly polished and scripted thing.
And for me, like that is what I. I actually like that. And when I've like seen some people online who have podcasts and they'll say like, Hey, like in like podcasts, podcasts and groups, they're like, how long does it take someone to like, edit like a 30 minute episode? Cause like, it just took me like three hours to take out, you know, all the ums and whatever.
Um, and like, I just don't know if I can like keep that up and I'm like, Oh, I, I, I can't. And I think,
and
I think because of like what you were saying, like, we, we are also have this expectation of like being perfect protects us. Yeah. And so it's like, I don't think that, I think for most people, unless you're like frickin this American life or something, like, you're not, you don't need to remove every single little, like.
Saying that is in the nuance and the cadence of how you normally talk. Um, you know, if you sneeze midway through, like, you might want to cut that out, but like, But I feel like
service,
right? That's just like, yeah. Yeah. Cause this sounds disgusting, but like, I kind of view it as the thing of, and I think even if you're like, okay, I don't have a podcast air-con I have no intention.
I think this goes the same with like live video, because like live video, you can't edit it. Right. So you're like, well, I have to have it perfect at the outset. And so I think when people, whether it's the person that's taking three hours to edit all of that out or the person that absolutely is afraid to like.
Go live or talk in their stories or talk on their feet or whatever is it's that fear of I will be vulnerable. I will make a mistake. People will judge me as harshly as I'm judging myself and they will see that I'm flawed. And therefore, like not only will they not want to work with me. They are all going to get together.
And they're going to talk about me behind my back. I'm like, and I have to say, like, I, I feel like I've just reached a point where I'm like, Okay. Even if they do like, so what, like,
so what exactly, and that is where you get? I think so there's so many different layers and levels of starting out and being at the point where you just don't care anymore.
Yeah. Right. And, and, you know, somewhere in between the worst thing that could possibly happen. And what does end up happening is, is like, You you being able to let everything go and just not worry about it and, and litter, and really, really not care, not just like, be like, Oh, I don't care when you know, you secretly do actually not care and be like, okay, It doesn't matter.
And I think, I mean, I must say for me anyway, that was something that came naturally with getting older is like the day I realized I didn't have to care about stuff. Yeah. Tell you when it was. And I was like, this is what everyone's talking about. I just don't have to care about this. Oh my God. And it doesn't have to stay with me.
I'm like infect the next two weeks of my thinking. But so going back to, you know, the system, what that does this sort of training that I do, what it does is it gives you a base point. And so it'd be like, I just don't even know how to be. Like, I don't even know how to show up. Like, I don't know what to do with my body.
I don't know how to talk. And so, you know, it's this sort of, it's this. Sometimes, I feel like I'm tricking people, cause I'm like, I'm going to teach this to you, but really it's not, it's not the secret. The secret is that you just have to do it, but I'm going to make you feel better because you're going to know how to carry yourself, how to breathe, to stay, calm, how to breathe, to support your voice, how to use your voice, and then how to read from text.
If you need to. And then you're going to take that and you're going to show up and you, so you know what to do. You get into position. You, you get your body in order, you, you, you know how you're going to speak, and then you start from that and it takes away. It's almost like the starting point. Like I give you the walking up to the end of the diving board
and then your job
is to just jump in.
Yeah, no, I love that. Yeah. Like you just, you have to try it. And with the system does as well as when you get messed up, when you're in the middle of a speech and somebody throws you off by asking a question or, uh, you know, snorting or whatever. And you're sort of like in that half, second of like, what's that, does somebody just say something mean about me?
Yes, nobody did because nobody ever would. But, um, but, but you think that right? And then you get messed up and you're like, where was I? Oh my God, what do I do? And so. The system that I keep referring to, it just you're like, okay, go back to Alexander, take my deep breath, find my voice. And go from there and it gives you like a little bit of a reset because you've trained yourself, how to deal with these situations when they come up, where you get messed up, because you do get messed up and you might be like even probably three times and talking to you today.
And this is not like massively high stakes, but I, but I want to be doing a good job with you. I've like lost myself in the middle of talking in my head. I'm like, okay, Hamilton, you're like off the rails a little bit. And then I just, I know how to like, Not allow that to make me freak out and feel like I'm totally doing a terrible job instead.
My brain's like, you're fine. Just bring it back to what the question was. Yeah. Like find your, find your way. And so like, I still make mistakes all the time, but I know that it's not that big of a
deal and that
I can come back from it without totally derailing. And.
Falling apart. Yeah. I love that. And it's funny you say that, cause I'm like, Oh, I didn't notice.
Like, I'm sure, you know, in your mind, you're like, Oh, I've gone off the rails. I'm like, I didn't notice, you know, like no idea. Um, but yeah, I think that, that, that is so that is such an important like habit to learn or skill to learn. And I feel like that is why I feel like frameworks can be helpful. When you're like, cause that's okay.
So like I have my, I have a bunch of different frameworks for all different things to my business. Um, which I think originally came from the fact that like, I went to school to be a high school teacher. And so everything is like, you know, you make like outlines and worksheets. And so that's just like how my brain works.
And so the way I think of sales conversations is like an acronym and it's a process and. Why I like it better than scripts is because like you said, if you have a framework that you're comfortable and you've been like trained in the fundamentals, then when something goes off the rails, you're like, okay, let me just go, let me go back to it.
And if it's like simple enough, you're like, Oh yeah, that's okay. That's right. It was all right. Great. Like now I can. Now I can proceed. Excuse me, where as you know, if you have something that is like super, super, super, like strict and to the letter, it's I feel like then it's just, it's harder. It's harder for your brain when you're in that panic moment.
It like, it needs simplicity and it needs that thing that it's can just, like you said, drop immediately back into and be like, Oh yeah. Okay. Now I'm ready to keep going.
Yeah. And you're, and the system has to be flexible, right? Like you, you, it can't just be like what you just said about having like this really strict system where so many things can happen.
If you are on this very strict system for anything for your business, for, uh, for speaking, using a script, if you feel like that's something you really need to do. The problem is you get so hung up on the specifics of the system and the rigidity of it, that when you make a mistake, you really feel like you've messed up and that can mess with your brain as well.
Whereas if you have a flexible system that allows for mistakes and, you know, shifts and changes, then. It's you can, you can lock and load it into like so many different ways. So, you know, for example, and I'm sure that your business systems work, similarly, the stuff that I teach and use it for giving a speech, giving a work presentation, doing a Facebook, live, doing a training video, uh, Just talking at an office meeting.
If that's something that's like really, really difficult for you speaking up at a family at Thanksgiving to your racist uncle, who's just been like awful. And like, you finally have had enough and you want to say something like all of these different things and, and you know, what it really boils down to is feeling empowered, to be able to speak your voice, which is just, you know, what, what lights me up as a person who can.
Help facilitate that for people just, it gives you the opportunity to finally be able to speak when that might've been something really, really difficult and complicated for you before. And I don't know, public speaking is like 73% of people have a huge fear of public speaking and all of the different capacities of it when really.
I think if we know sort of what to do, if you can put yourself into the little framework and the sort of the system, you can really do it and anybody can do it. So, you know, we have the sphere of it. It's so cool that your teacher did that. I thought you were going to tell me a different story actually, where you were like my teaching sixth grade.
So every time I go up to speak, I hear her saying, Erica, your, your voice is too quiet or stop being so screechy. Like you have to like change that. Cause that, that is the true for like a lot of clients that I have. Um, it's, it's amazing that she just sort of, you know, this is what we're doing and you've got to do it.
And then again, it's no big deal. You did it.
Yeah. Yeah. And I do have, like, it's funny and I. I don't know if I've mentioned it on the podcast before. I know I've mentioned it like somewhere on social media, but
the,
uh, the criticism that I would get from a lot of people in my life was always like, you talk too much and you're too loud.
And I'm like, okay. So I get, I would get really self-conscious of that. And now I'm like, Well too bad. Cause like it's actually done me really well. Like yeah. I'm like, okay, so now I literally get paid to talk. Like, I mean, I don't get paid to do his podcast, but like I do this podcast, which is like part of the content and like marketing plan for my business.
It's all me talking. Yep. I just spoke this morning to a group of people who. Most of whom were cold leads who now know that I exist and see me as an expert and might turn into clients or referrals. Yep. Um, you know, there's Al and like, when I work with my clients, we are talking and I'm sort of like, huh, funny how it worked out in my favor.
Like I didn't, I kind of, there were times in my life where I was like, I should try to talk. Less. And, you know, there are still some times when in like, it's like a certain setting and I'm like, okay, like, you don't need to interject every two seconds. Like you, you can actually talk less than I'll be mindful, but yes.
But on the whole I'm like, I'm glad I didn't listen to them or I'm glad I couldn't ever figure out a way to like, shut the hell up because it's actually, I feel like it's actually one of my super powers and, um, So, yeah, so all my, all my exes can, you know,
they can,
they can suck it along with yours. Who's said mean things about your singing, but, um, but yeah, I feel like even as you were saying, like showing up, like, I feel like even, you know, sales conversations, discovery calls, like if you can hype yourself and then get grounded and feel really good and like show up and talk to people like it.
Just has a different energy. And I will even say for myself, there have been people where I have stupidly felt intimidated before hopping on a sales call. And because I'm like, Oh, they have like way more, you know, I don't know. Like they have like 20,000 Instagram followers, like stupid, you know, like we're, none of us is immune to this, like garbage.
Yup. Yup.
And I can like, literally feel myself, like on the zoom, like kind of like curling into myself because. Cause I, my brain goes back to high school where it's like, you're the weirdo and they're the popular kid and you have to woo them over. And it's like, this is nonsense, but it happens. Like I want to normalize the fact that like, it happens even to, you know, quote unquote successful people.
Yeah. Or people who have been doing it for a really long time. Yeah. That stuff that's like, that's. That's mindset stuff. Um, but you know, and so w what I'm curious about is when you start feeling like that, how does that affect your sales call? Like, do you feel like you're able to be yourself, or are you getting hung up on feeling like you need to be a persona because that's really important.
And I, and I want to talk about that.
Definitely. Yeah. That's a great question. So I feel like. I, it doesn't go as well. Um, and I, I feel like I'm like, Oh, like, I'm like, I'm not good enough for you. You're going to be destroyed if we work together, you'll be disappointed. Cause you're obviously, um, you know, okay, wait, this is what it reminds me of, you know, on all those, like, can't be like nineties and early two thousands teen movies where it was like, There'd be like the weird girl.
And then they would like give her a makeover and then suddenly she'd get to hang out with the popular kids. But then like some of the popular kids would figure out later they're like, wait, that was the girl who used to wear glasses and like painters, overalls, like, you know, and, and then it would be like, she's been outed.
Like she's she snuck in. And yeah, it would be, that would be my train of thought. It would be like, well, You know, if this I like I can't get, I can't like promise too much with this person because if they feel confident in working with me, then they'll hire me. And I'm obviously not as like cooler, amazing as they are.
So. We'll be halfway through working together and then I'll get found out. They'll be like, she's the one, this is the weird one. That's like into art and she wears glasses and, but she just, you know, got to make sure over and she likes subverted and you know, are like cool kids, uh, click and whatever. So Dan is like, this it's like this very, um, subconscious, rapid fire.
Like I don't even realize it until after it's happened. And, but now it does it. Like, I, I just am starting to work with a client who. Is it a huge name in like an, uh, industry niche that like one of my hobbies as a part of, but because I had that experience and I've done, like the mindset work when we were getting on the call, I could be like, it doesn't matter that like, you know, people look up to her, like, whatever the case, like she's coming to you as an expert, you totally have what it takes.
Show up confidently. And like in your truth and, and it was great. And yeah, we started working together and it was fine. It's amazing.
Like,
yeah, but like that is the truth early was that thing of like, I had to work through all of the mindset of like, of like this, my projection of like, this person is in like the cool kids club.
And if they hire me, they will feel stupid later knowing that they spent money on somebody who isn't as cool as them. And all the like outed as the weird kid in high school. Right.
Everybody's so our
brains are so weird. Everyone figured now it's
so weird when I get nice testimonials from people. I immediately go, Oh, they're just being nice to me, so nice that they, that they just want my business to do well.
Okay. Hamilton, let's just take a beat here. What's this, but I want to talk about, um, You know, personas that we feel like we need to embody in order to be on camera, because that's really important too. So you've talked. I don't know if it was now, but I mean, I follow you on Instagram and I know you talked about being extroverted before.
Right. So a lot of people are introverted and then there's like the varying degrees. I don't know if you've ever read the book. Uh, quiet the PA. Oh no,
but I've heard good things.
Yeah. It's wonderful. And so it's like, we can all sort of step into different roles at different times. It's sort of how we, how we energize ourselves, whether we like to be around people or w w whether we like to be alone, but so introverted people will often feel like.
Well, I just, I can't get up and just be, you know, gregarious and outgoing and like, that's just not me. And I'm like, you're right. It's totally not you, but you can still stand up and speak to a group of people in the same way that you're speaking to me right now as yourself. You just have to figure out how, how to get past the nervousness and the shaking and the, and all of the different things that happened to us before we get up and speak in front of people, you don't need to get up and pretend to be Barack Obama, because that would be weird.
And people would absolutely know that something strange was happening and they would not be able to relate to you because, you know, you know, when somebody is putting on. Some kind of weird mask that does not fit. Yeah. The only mask should be wearing is the one that's just already on your face. And so, you know, people will, will come to me and say, I need to lower my pitch.
That's what I need to do in order to feel like I can get up and speak in front of people. And I'm like, okay, for who, who do you need to lower your pitch for? Because we need to start with just the mechanics of your body. Let's start with that and see what happens. Because often when we are nervous, we get tense and that does actually make her voices speak at a higher pitch.
And so just sort of naturally learning how to calm down. We'll change your pitch a little bit, but, but let's, let's first start with who are you? And. Who are you going to be when you get up there? Because the answer always has to be you or else. This is not going to work. What you're hoping to achieve in our sessions together is not going to work.
If you want to get up and you are sort of an introverted person and want to get up and be like, bring on CEO, you know, boss vibes.
Oh my
gosh. Yeah, whatever you think that is.
Yeah, no, it's weird. It's I'm so glad you mentioned this because that is really creepy. And I will say what's interesting. So my husband and my son are both wicked introverts, and most of my clients are introverts and a client that we recently just finished our time together.
We. Intentionally made her marketing plan around the fact that she is a super, super, super introvert. Uh, and she hates like, I don't know, kind of like casual conversation and like chit chat. Like she wants deep connection and relationships. Right. So it was like, okay. And she, and she only uses Instagram is totally fine.
That's pretty much just what I do. Um, so we were like, okay, how can we make this workable for you? So that it's sustainable. So we built that social media plan around her personality. And then we figured out like, Oh, where does she like to show up? In spaces that feel safe and good, and that also bring her business.
And it was like, Oh, very small group settings, like, um, coworking, like small communities, different things like that. And it was like, perfect. So here is your plan. Like now we know this is where you will thrive. This is where you feel comfortable. So just try to find more of the same and like, just keep showing up there.
And it will be successful for you because it aligns with like who you are and you don't have to pretend to be somebody else.
Yeah. And that's, and that is such a key thing for people. I mean, I will say this, I think it's very important to be constantly gently nudging yourself outside of your comfort zone.
Totally
and expanding in whatever capacity that is for you. I mean, I teach a college course and, you know, I say to everybody at the beginning, you're going to do a growth plan and all of us are starting in different places of where we are comfortable. Uh, you know, speaking and presenting. Person over there has, you know, is in their forties and has done like speeches constantly throughout their lives.
They're going to be in a totally different place than 17 year old. Who's just left high school who has, you know, never done theater or like ever had to talk in front of people. And so the whole, you know, what I say is the whole point of this course is to grow. And so you get, you have to decide that what that is for you and you, and like.
Having people shove you in different directions is not going to work, but if you take ownership of, okay. So I, I do not want to speak at a conference. That to me is likely something that I'm never, ever going to want to do. And I don't mean me personally. I just mean as a person, but I do really want to feel like when I present at my office meetings, like I am representing myself well and not.
Sounding stupid, which is what I feel like I do now, because all of these things happen to me and I, and I can't get my confidence up and I just feel like I'm, I'm being rambly and dorky. And, um, and I, they probably are. You mean, you, you know, the thing is like when we get up and we feel that, um, we feel that you feel what's happening.
In the room. Right. And, and that's another thing is like own that you can feel that people are thinking you're weird. You can feel that somebody is not going to take you seriously based on how you're dressed or, or whatever is happening that day. And they, and they may not. And here's where, here's where things happen.
You have to decide that that's okay and you're going to do it anyway. And that's when you just go back to the system. And the mindset work, which is, it doesn't matter. Yeah. Like if that, if you're going to dismiss me based on that, then, you know, you're, I I'm either going to change your mind or I'm not, but I'm still just going to show up as myself doing the work that I, that I put in to arrive here today and present.
Does that make sense?
Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And I like how you mentioned, um, The having the growth plan too. Cause it is like, even that same client, like over the six months we worked together, she did get a lot more comfortable with like posting in her feed and posting and stories and things like that.
And you know, it wasn't just zero to 60. It was, you know, over the course of, of six months. And, um, and yeah, and I, so I agree, like we can always be like, Learning and in, in improving and, you know, wanting things to be better and all of that, because at the end of the day, like it w it really matters, especially with, you know, a digital world and, and everything.
Like, we don't all have to be internet celebrities to be famous, but it is really good to show up. Uh, It, you know, if you want, if you want to grow your business, like I know right now, you know, there's a lot of like, you know, Oh, do I have to be on social media and blah, blah, blah. And it's like, you know, I mean, in some ways, yes, you just have to figure out what is going to work for you.
And you don't have to do things that you are like absolutely a hundred percent opposed to, but there are best practices that are going to. Make it easier for you to show up so that you can get hired so that you can have that like thriving business and do the work that you love.
Yeah, exactly. And it's, you know, you don't have to get up and do, um, reels with music and dancing and like pointing if that is not your jam.
Yeah. But if it is your jam, Fucking go for it. Yeah. Like show everybody like the fun, like get out there and be yourself. And then the person who's like looking is going to go, Oh, that's my girl. Or, you know, the person who, however you are, if you show up, that's it. I could go on about this forever. But like talking about ideal clients, if the goal is to, is to find our people, then we show up as ourselves.
And our people find us. Yeah,
absolutely. And the people who aren't, our people will self-select and they will, they will leave I
believe
and not, yeah. Super. Okay. Yeah. Hard. I think when you're first starting, because you're only dealing with a small number, you know, and when you see that number dwindle, every once in a while, you're like, Oh no, what am I doing wrong?
But it's not that it's just. Naturally, you know, things are moving and flowing in different ways and, and, and you're losing sort of. Dead weight.
Really? Definitely. So this has been super fun and I really, really appreciate your time. I would love to know cause you have a podcast that is brand new as of when this comes out.
So tell us, tell us a little bit about that. And also, I mean, I will, you know, mention all of the, all the links and all the places people can check you out. But yeah, like if people are listening to this podcast, they probably enjoy
podcasts. Okay. So it's called UBU pod, the letters, U B U. And I basically interview people that I think are really amazing.
And we talk about difficult times in their lives and how they got through them, because I love stories. And I love that as people who like work through things and come out the other side, what they've learned about that. Uh, and all the people I've that I've been interviewing are, have these very interesting and rich lives that are, that are so important, uh, to learn about.
But it's the visibility. So all of the people who are on the podcast are, have public facing lives. And so, um, whether they, you know, have, you know, the woman I interviewed today is, uh, she has 21 and a half thousand. Subscribers on YouTube. And she is, um, she's an advocate for being a fat person in the world.
And so she gets on and she talks about like what it's like to have your period when you're fat things that, you know, if, if you're not, if, if that's not something that's crossed your path, you may not ever think about, or like what chairs work and what chairs don't and what it's like when you have to go to like a conference and.
You know, you're worried about sitting down. And so like, you know, so like just the sort of very interesting perspective, and she does this all on YouTube, which as you can imagine. Yeah. Because like it's ups and downs, so, so yeah, so, so I've just been interviewing these like amazing people and I leave these conversations sort of.
Really really energized. And it usually takes me a couple of hours to like calm down and come down. And so I'm just so pumped about. The stories and the learning that happens from that. Right. And it's so important to watch other people work through their shit and then be, you know, like really cool and, and be like, okay, so this is what it's like to be resilient.
This is what it's like to come through it and still like, talk about it and tell people about it. And, and how do we respond to that? So that that's sort of the very loose shape of the podcast. It's basically, bad-ass people's stories.
I love that. I absolutely fun. I absolutely love that. And, uh, yeah, I, I love, I love stories too, so I will have to check it out and yeah, I'm, I'm very, I'm very excited about that.
That's that's right up my alley, so, well, this was awesome. Thank you so much. I encourage anyone who feels like they could. Up level their skills in this area to definitely reach out, especially if you're like, I have a message. I want the world to share, you know, to like, know about this message or I have these big goals for my business, but it feels really scary being visible.
Like definitely check out that in Hamilton because
she approachable.
She's very approachable. She's awesome. And, uh, yeah. So thank you. Thank you again so much. I really
thank you. This has been really, really fun.
Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the, sell it sister podcast, if you loved it and you want more sure to subscribe so that you never miss an episode and then head on over to sell it, sisterhood.com to join my free Facebook community group.
And as your mama said, sharing is caring. So if you got a lot of value out of this episode, be sure to share it with your biz besties too. Okay. Now get out there and sell it, sister.
