Ep. 052: Why (& How) to Take a Stand for Something in Biz w/ Maggie Frank-Hsu
As Maggie says in this interview, "So many more people will care about you if you're genuine online." But this can feel hard and scary. In a world where "cancel culture" abounds it can feel terrifying to publicly take a stand for what you believe in as it pertains to your business.
While it's inevitable that not everyone will share our same opinions and beliefs, the good news is that by standing in our own truth we attract more of the RIGHT people for us
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Join Maggie Frank-Hsu & I as we talk about simple ways to show up as yourself in your content.
BIO:
Maggie Frank-Hsu helps women give themselves permission to command attention and respect for what they do. She is a writing coach to entrepreneurs who want to go from invisible to high-profile expert. Because when women believe we deserve attention, we are fighting back against patriarchy. Maggie has spent her entire career using words to move audiences as an online marketer, an editor and a reporter. She received her master’s from the Columbia School of Journalism. She lives in San Diego with her husband and her 2 sons.
LINKS:
maggiefrankhsu.com,
The Write When You're Rusty guide (free download): https://mfh-consulting.ck.page/76af876832
OTHER LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED TODAY:
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Erika Tebbens: Grow marketing culture and sketchy MLMs have given modern business a bad reputation. It feels harder than ever to succeed as an entrepreneur, even though we've got an abundance of info and tech, right at our fingertips. If you feel frustrated, running your business, stress over your sales schools or are baffled by marketing strategies, you've come to the right place.
You deserve to run a successful sustainable business without spamming all of your friends or wasting time and money on marketing gimmicks. This is the Sell It Sister Podcast, and you're going to learn how to make more money without complex systems or sleazy sales tactics. I'm Erika Tebbens and I teach highly motivated female and gender expansive entrepreneurs that selling doesn't have to suck.
I've been running successful businesses and teaching others how to sell smarter, earn more and create raving fans for over 15 years. And I'm excited to share what I've learned with you. If you want success without truly serving your clients profits without any passion or the next get rich quick scheme, I'm not your gal, but if you're all in as an entrepreneur, want to make a difference with your work and are ready to run a business you're proud of, then get ready to Sell It, Sister.
If you find that you're struggling with sales conversations, if they stress you out, or you find that you're always stumbling over your words, or you're not closing as many sales as you like, or you just are really petrified of coming across as that pushy sales person.
I have great news for you. I have eight totally free, completely, a hundred percent free, no catch, no sleaze sales method guide just for you. So when you download this guide and I'll give you the URL in just a second, you are going to be able to, you start selling smarter this week. Yes, really. So what this is is a framework, a customizable framework that works, whether you sell a product or a service or both.
So this is not weird scripts that you have to memorize or anything really convoluted or complex, it's just an easy way to remember what to say, how to say it and why to say it when you're having a sales conversation with someone, I think you're going to love it.
I know. I do. I know it's worked for me for many, many, many years. I know my clients love it too. It gives them a ton of confidence when it comes to selling and that confidence translates to closing more sales, right? So if you need this, if this is a tool that seems like it's beneficial to you, I want you to go to bit.ly/sellitsisterpodcast, it's all lower case, and it's all one word again. That's B-I-T dot L-Y Bitly essentially, forward slash sell it's sister podcast. It's really, really quick to go through, but if you have any questions or anything, be sure to reach out because I want to make sure that you are a selling superstar.
On today's episode. I have very special guest, Maggie Frank-Hsu, joining us. And she's a writing coach. I know we've had another writing coach on before, but this is a totally different topic. And I think it's one you're going to really enjoy and hopefully get a ton of value from. So before I tell you a little bit about Maggie, I just want to say that we recorded this when all of the coronavirus, uh, shelter in place stuff started happening and the internet and zoom was overwhelmed.
So there are a few little spots where it might get a little bit choppy, but overall, the Zuma gods shined upon us. And it wasn't too laggy or terrible. Also, uh, this one is a little shorter than usual because our schedules are all sort of wonky right now with all of this and managing kids at home and everything.
So I had wished we could have kept going on and on, there is a beautiful nugget at the end about writing for the business that you want, not the one you have. And gosh, I could have just talked about that with her, forever, but I think it is really valuable, especially in a strange, scary, you know, concerning moment.
Um, like what we are all living through in this moment when this episode is coming out. Uh, but I know this can be the case any time I can feel like. You know, well, this is, this is my reality, and I don't want to just ignore my reality. And that is not really it at all. It's more of, instead of getting stuck in what is right in front of you.
How can we think about what we envision is possible for our future business and kind of write from that place? So, yeah. Gosh, I just, I loved, loved, loved this conversation and I hope that you love it as much as I do so. Here is a little bit about Maggie before we dive in to all the good stuff that she and I talk about.
So Maggie Frank-Hsu helps women give themselves permission to command attention and respect it and respect for what they do. She's a writing coach to entrepreneurs who want to go from invisible to high profile expert because when women believe we deserve attention, we are fighting back against patriarchy.
Maggie has spent her entire career using words to move audiences as an online marketer and editor and a reporter, she received her master's from the Columbia School of Journalism and currently lives in San Diego with her husband and 2 sons. Alright, without further ado onto the interview.
Hi, Maggie.
Thank you so much for joining me on the, Sell It Sister Podcast, uh, in this wild time of COVID-19 where we are going to try to get this done on the Zoom platform and hopefully it works out. So thank you for being here.
Maggie Frank-Hsu: Yes. Thank you so much having me. If you hear my kids, they are quarantined, but they are often in other rooms, so, um, yeah, less than perfect, but we soldier on.
Erika Tebbens: Exactly. Yeah. My, uh, my child is, is snacking in the room adjacent to me, my dog might come in, who knows? It's a, it's an interesting moment in time. Um, so I love, love, love what we are going to talk about because I really believe it in my core. And that is showing up as yourself with your values in all of your marketing and how you can take a stand for something as a way to set yourself apart, without it having to be like really negative or feel weird.
So, yeah, go ahead. Tell me, tell me about like you and your philosophy and all this good stuff.
Maggie Frank-Hsu: Oh, my gosh. Okay. Uh, yeah, so definitely. I mean, first of all, thanks for having me. You are, so you are so on this, like, this is very similar to what you talk about when you talk about showing up and making your offers.
What I'm going to talk about is just showing up with your content, but we are like really on the same wavelength because we talked the other day about this. So I'm excited and I'm sure like you'll be chiming in, and I'm excited to talk about this. So, um, so first of all, um, You know, I didn't come to this that easily.
I started out, I started my business almost five years ago and when I did, I just really wanted to sell whatever people wanted to buy because I wanted money. Um, and so it's so that's cool, right? But I didn't understand and how to bring anything about what I really believed or what really mattered to me or what really may be.
You know what really pissed me off, what really lit me up, all those kinds of things. I didn't understand how to bring any of that into the work I was doing. So I was doing mark, so I was doing online marketing. So I was doing a lot of copywriting for others. I was doing some Facebook ads management, which I don't do anymore.
Um, I was doing, um, some email funnel design, all kinds of things. And, um, tou know, the impression of me online was totally different from who I am in person. So I was making a lot of sales through referral. So, but people weren't finding me online at all because I was so generic, you know, like anything I put out, um, you know, any number of dozens of other online marketing experts had already written about the topics I was blogging about, like, you know, whatever it was at the time funnels and Facebook ads and stuff, um, probably wrote, uh, wrote about it before me knew more about it, wrote about it better.
And so, um, a couple of years ago I have two children. One is five and one is two. So back, right after I had my second kid. I was on like a pseudo, you know, I was, I had closed up shop. Basically. I had my business for, you know, four to six months. I was saying I had a couple of clients, so I was kind of working kind of not anyway.
Um, I didn't have a lot of free time as you know, home with my baby. Um, but at one point I was on the phone with a friend of mine named Margo Aaron. And she, um, say like we were talking about, I was talking about how, um, it's really, I was just ranting about stuff. I, I now write about. So I ran about publicly.
So I was talking about like motherhood and, um, how it's so important to maintain his own autonomy as another. And like, make sure you still feed your soul and all this stuff. And she was like, why don't you just start writing about that? Like, why don't you start sharing about that? And see, like what kind of people get attracted to you?
I don't know why we're talking about in the context of marketing, but anyway, I was like, okay. So I started posting like micro blogs on Instagram, and I did a lot of Instagram stories because I didn't have any followers on Instagram. Um, so I had like 250 followers or something. And so I wasn't afraid to talk about what I really thought.
And it was like really big response. So, um, just everyone was like, yeah, like every time I would post. And that was really, that was a huge ego boost because I didn't have that going on in any other facet of my public, like my business or my marketing, like my marketing online was totally ignored up to that point.
Um, so it took me another year to kind of figure out how to take. What I was saying about motherhood and being a and feminism and motherhood and being a business woman and, and being a mother, all that stuff and relate it to my business. And I actually changed my business as a result of writing about all this stuff.
So I moved from, um, I'm still doing copywriting, but I'm also doing writing coaching. So I'm helping other women find their big idea, um, kind of different from how I've done. Uh, I'm helping women who maybe have a mind that someday they're going to write a book, but they're totally overwhelmed and they don't know where to start.
And so they want to, they need to figure out what they're really about. Um, and the process I did that in was through writing. Um, so yeah, so I don't know if that, I, I guess, like when you said like what it's all about, it's really been all about, um, kind of coming to the realization that. If you're in business for yourself, you know, you don't even have to be, but if you're a founder, if you're the person who this business, and then you're just trying to be like everyone else.
Um, what's the point? Like it's here to go get a job and go be like everybody else and go do what somebody else says you should do. Than it is to run your own business. It's so hard to make it with your own business. And there's so much uncertainty and risk and, and you know, you have to make it rain. I mean, you have to get clients and then you have to execute the work.
It's just harder. So if you're gonna go down that road in my mind, I know this isn't for everybody. That's the point in my mind though, why wouldn't you really be about the stuff that. Pisses you off as, so who says this, Mike Kim pisses you off breaks your heart and you're the stuff you're really passionate about.
Why wouldn't you? And we can talk about as we talk exactly what I mean, but why wouldn't you infuse your public persona, your personal brand, whatever you want to call it with that stuff that you really care about because that's the, that's the advantage of being in business for yourself is. You get to talk about all that stuff.
You get to talk about whatever you want. It gets to be whatever you want. And if you don't want to take advantage of that side, all you're getting is the hard stuff about business, you know?
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Oh, I love how you said that. All you're getting is the hard stuff. It's so true. I um, and I know that, I mean, God, this is, this is so hard.
Like I just imagine people listening and being like, Well, I, I can't share that because like, people will get mad or I'll get haters or I'll get mean DMS or I'll screw up and I'll offend someone. Like, I think that it feels like more than ever. It's, it's really scary to just kind of put your, your whole self out there and, and like really show up just as who you are.
I mean, I even think. I feel like day by day. I even get a little bit more brave. Uh, even though I feel like I already am fairly, you know, open and, and, uh, uh, like visible and, and show up with my, my opinions and my beliefs, but every now and then there's something like, uh, I'll give a real example. Cause this is, this is so dumb, but I know I'm not alone in this.
Um, my, like as the title, we're recording this, the episodes that I had already recorded are around, um, course creation and. And I've talked, you know, in, in my copy and in my content about how, you know, not everyone needs a course, if they're trying to scale and, and not that I'm anti course, but I've, you know, kind of come out and, and put this stake in the ground that like, Making a course is not the end all be all way to scale your business.
And I told a business friend of mine, I'm like, sometimes I get nervous that like these big name, people who make their living off of teaching other people to make and sell courses like that is their whole marketing message is like, you need to have a course. Sometimes they worry that like they're going to send me a cease and desist letter, which A is totally illogical.
There's no. It's not like I'm calling them out or I'm slandering them or anything, but it's like, I think especially as women, we have this fear of disappointing people with our opinions. So I don't know. I would love your take on that.
Maggie Frank-Hsu: Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think, um, it's so scary. It is really scary. Um, to go to do something that you feel like goes against the grain.
So everybody's saying one thing and you're saying the opposite. And for me, I remember like the first couple of years, because, um, being in online marketing, that's my biz, right? Like, uh, you know, the first year I was like, Oh, all these people are saying like a load of bullshit, but they're all saying it. So I must be an idiot.
And they all must be, and I'm not going to name names. Um, a lot of them are men, but some of them are women. And so I was like, I must be just not experienced enough to realize that, you know, or just not, you know, and I'm coming out of like 10 years in marketing. When I started my business 15 years career, you know, I'd seen a few things like, but I was, I was completely questioning whether I was.
I was like, I just don't know. And they do, and that must be the case. And so I was completely silent about everything for a year, everything I thought. And that's when I had that irritation with Margo, it was about like, she was like, you should be talking about this motherhood stuff, but it was also just like, you should be safe stuff.
And like, so it's it, you know, that helps. So I can get into like how I, cause I had the exact same fears. Um, and I can get into like how I conquered it cause I mentioned, one of the things I did was I started really small. So I actually tell clients this, like, if you want to go public with an idea you're a little bit nervous about, or nervous will be controversial.
You might do it on a platform that you don't care about much for like, for me, Instagram, like I'm a writer. So Instagram, I was like, I don't care about Instagram. What do I? And then Instagram turned out to be huge for me in terms of making connections and networking. But, um, so I just started sharing there and I shared in stories because stories are really hidden in a way, right.
Like somebody has to go click that little circle to really find them. So, and then it was kind of a testing ground and then it turned out like, It was a total emperor's new clothes thing. Like everybody was like, yup. Right there with you. Right. But, uh, like everybody agreed with me. So like that's one, one tip I would give is like, if you want to test the waters with an opinion that you're worried.
Uh, we'll piss people off. You can do it on a platform that you don't rely on to bring you money. Um, for example, like right now, you know, so like if your email list is a place where you're making consistent money right now, maybe it's, don't go there at first. Um, what's the other thing I was going to say about that.
I mean, that's happening to me now. Like, Um, just this week, like I, Oh, well actually I'll use a client examples. I don't keep talking about myself. Like one of my clients is asleep a sleep coach and she has a point of view on, um, how about, about kind of boundaries and how like kind of making sure you get sleep is really great for your kids and great for it's, you know, so whatever, that's her point of view.
I know sleep is controversial, right? So. When she's testing the waters on, on that kind of stuff. She got her first, um, negative comment, which was sort of just like a random, it was pretty random. It was like, I never had to sleep train or something like that. And she got like, there's also construction going on in my house.
I'm sorry. If you can hear that. Um, uh, the like negative, she gets negative feedback and she got like, really like freaked out. So I guess the other thing I would say is. When you say something that really is really meaningful to you and is really, it's like cut straight through all the bullshit. Like some people are going to love it.
It's a little more, it's more polarizing than just saying something that everyone's going to ignore. That's generic. So if you say something like. That's really, you know, really matters too, and is really kind of a stake in the ground. There's going to be some people on one side of that line that are with you a hundred percent and love you and will never forget you.
And that's the advantage of seeing something that really matters. Um, they come back and they come back and they come back. Um, and they're just way more. Yeah. Like they ignore you anymore. And then there's these other people on the other side that are like, don't like you. Um, so that feeds into that. I mean, one of our, it seems our greatest fear is women.
I mean, One, you know, our, we have great, great fears, but one of our daily fears that's always tripping us up is the fear of not being liked. And so there's this, and it happens to me all the time. Oh, she doesn't like me. It's like, I just had this recently where whatever, anyway, where I didn't, you know, had an interaction with, uh, with a person.
Um, and I was like, the first thing I had at the end was like, Oh, she doesn't like me. And then I realized like, well, I don't really like her. So I feel like it's fine, but you know, but I had that like panic of like, Oh my God, somebody doesn't like me. Um, so back to my sleep trainer example, so, you know, she was like, how do I respond?
Like, you know, I was like, you don't like, you can say a line, like good for you. Glad you didn't need sleep training. You know, like with the implication being, this is probably not a good. Facebook group for you. Like, you know, if you don't need sleep training and I'm running this group where I'm talking about sleep training, what are you doing here?
Right? Yeah. So, um, so yeah, so I think there's just this fear. So yeah, that's a big fear to conquer is like, when you talk about the things that you really care about and they're the things that piss you off when you see them, like, so for your example, Erika, Um, you see all these people running to create a course say before they have an audience, right.
Or something like that, that pisses you off, you know, it's not just, it's not just like, well, you know, everybody should do what they want. No, you know, it's the wrong course of action, you know, that you can help people by telling them, Hey, just think about these things before you go create a course. And so are you going to be silent because some people will then.
I don't know, like this, this fantasy fear that you have that like, some people will be like, Hey, you're attacking my livelihood because my livelihood is based on everybody believing they need to make a course. Anyway, it just gets like really ridiculous, really fast too.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, it really does. And I think, uh, it's funny.
Cause like, even when I said it to my friend, I'm like, As if these people, these like big name, people even know who the hell I am. Right? Like I, there I'm not threatening their business one iota. Um, but yeah, I think it is, it really is that, that thing of like, I don't want to be yelled at, I don't want to make people mad.
And I will say what's funny is whenever I have done a post, um, and I'm very much like you, like, I, I hang out on Instagram. Um, the most, like I love to make connections, uh, through Instagram and whenever I make a post where I'm like a little bit nervous, uh, the really surprising thing is that I get. Tons of response and that's in like good response, not like haters and mean DMS or anything.
It's, it's like people who are like, Oh, thank you for saying that. Or I'm so glad you said that, or I didn't think of it that way. And so it is like a good positive reinforcement to me that is like, Oh yeah. Okay. You can go a little bit deeper down this, this road. Um, cause people actually do want to hear you.
Hear you talk about that. So it's good. Oh my gosh. Every, every time, like I don't. Yeah. It's just even, even when I first started, like, I don't work with people in network marketing at all anymore, but I, I had a successful business in direct sales for about four years. And, uh, when I made the pivot to like really not talk to those people at all, I was.
I was so afraid. Like I don't, it nothing happened. Like I was re I was like, at least nothing publicly. Like, I don't know. Maybe people were like annoyed behind my back, but, uh, I was like, yeah, I just, I don't. I don't want to help people in, in that industry, like one-on-one anymore. Like they can, they can absorb any free training they want.
That helps. And that's great. But like, I just energetically don't want to coach in that, in that space anymore. And so, yeah, so I would say like, if there are people right now, I think sort of at our core, we know what we stand for, but do you have any exercises to like really help that get to the surface so we can get really clear on what that is?
Maggie Frank-Hsu: I do I do. I just wanted to say before, I will, I will say something about that in a minute. And also there's a big difference. So you brought up the coolest thing and it happens to me a lot too, where you write something and you go like, Oh, Oh my gosh, should I put this out? And then, you know, in your gut, whether or not to put it out, but I just want to articulate what that gut is telling you the things to not put out.
So what I'm not standing for right now is, um, you know, so anything that you have, any videos you've recorded or work that you've done while you were actively crying or going through an emotion. So while you were really crying while you were really, really upset, Nope. I would, I, I'm not saying you should actually, you know, but I'm saying you should read that maybe like three days later before you go put that up.
Um, I'm actually really not for, um, this kind of mommy porn that I see on Instagram and YouTube a lot, which is like, while you're actively having a really difficult moment with your young children. To kind of put the phone in your face and talk about exactly what you're feeling and immediately hit publish.
Um, not my, I don't think that that is, um, that will definitely not what I'm talking about business marketing wise. And then, and, and so your gut, if your gut is telling me not to publish that, your gets right about that. But what you're talking about is different, which is it's this feeling of when you have that feeling, that everyone is saying something.
Or, and everybody is not saying something else. So for example, mine which is this, here's one of my polarizing things that some people will immediately unfollow me when I say this. And some people like can't get enough of it. I do not believe. And this is very relevant right now. I do not believe that. Well, for me personally, I would not be successful in business if I didn't have regular, um, childcare.
So I don't think. I think it's an unrealistic expectation on most people, most women to expect them to build a business. And also, and I know you do the so, but this is my thing, right? So maybe we get you and I can have it out right now, but to expect them to build a business or go into that full-time and also full-time take care of little kids, like they're very little children and also, um, you know, some of them are doing other stuff too. Right. So, uh, keeping the house super neat and all this kind of stuff. And there's this huge expectation seems like online, especially that moms will just be doing all this stuff all at once.
Um, and, and, and without any consequence over the longterm. And I know there are like, I know very specific examples of women who are doing that. And, um, that's great for them. I'm not saying no one can do that. I'm just saying that to put that expectation on all moms who start their own businesses is unfair.
Um, And so when I first wrote that I was really scared shitless to publish that because a lot of women, moms who were mompreneur moms were, were following me and I was afraid to piss them off. Um, kind of like what you said about network marketing, but when I said it, it was really true for me. It was really important for me to talk about it and.
The people who came toward me as a result of that, or much better fit when they did become clients. The vast majority of them didn't become clients. Right. I don't need a thousand clients. So they were just way more my people anyway. So it was the right thing to do. So I feel like I just want to make a big distinction there between, um, you know, Going going with unprocessed emotions and sharing those publicly immediately.
That's not what I'm talking about. What, what I am talking about is getting a little bit more, I'm brave about sharing stuff that you've really been noodling on for a while that it seems like nobody else is saying.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. I really like that example. And I know, um, even, yeah, like this was a totally not business-related thing, but, uh, I posted something on my personal Facebook this morning about like, to anyone who's feeling super guilty about increased screen time right now, while everyone is at home, like, here's been my.
Uh, experiences with my now 15 year old, who we have a very different, very like more open approach to screen time in our house. And like, how would that has actually like the benefits that we've seen? Um, because even though it has nothing to do with. With my business life at all. Uh, so I, I, you know, I wouldn't rant about it on like my podcast or on my, my business, Instagram or anything is, is just that, like, I am not somebody who, uh, like vilifies screen time or parents who like Le allow their kids on screens.
Um, And it, yeah, it's, it's not going to be like my, my stake in the ground, but I feel like I have room to want to sort of calm some people's feelings, fears right now about like, Oh my gosh, I'm ruining my kids because Hey, I still have to work. And now I don't have childcare. And am I going to turn, you know, my seven-year-old into, uh, like a horrible older person someday, because in this weird moment in time, like I got to do what I gotta do. So I was just like,
Maggie Frank-Hsu: Too real. I agree with you a hundred percent. Yeah, this is a great example.
Erika Tebbens: Cause I mean, right now as I record this, like I like, you know, my family is like doing their thing and I've, and I I'm with you. I always say like, cause I was still working full time.
I was managing, um, For Calvin Klein when my son was a toddler and my husband was deployed and I always say I'm like the best thing for me in that time was childcare. And I would even like, I would even drop him off, um, one of my days off so that I could clean my house and run errands and like, am I am so.
Uh, guilt-free about that because it just, it saved my life during that time. So yeah. I, I know this is like divergent, but yes, I totally like had I seen you post about that in a moment in my life where I was really struggling to balance, like, you know, homeschooling and running a business and all of that, like, I totally would have resonated with your message even though, even though like, I didn't necessarily have.
Uh, like as he got older and was home, I didn't have childcare for him, but I'm also like a really, uh, I'm not like super helicoptery. Um, so, so yeah, I think that's, that's a really great example that you brought up, so thank you for it.
Maggie Frank-Hsu: Yes. Awesome. Yes. And so I wanted to talk about. And the years, your example equally as good, right?
Because the screen time thing is real. It's real right now because of the quarantine, but it's also been, it's just a thing that it's like, you know, everybody is like, uh, yeah. Anyway, you said it perfectly. I'm not gonna add too much, but that's a really good example. Um, And that can even come into, depending on who your market is and your ideal client.
It's not like that can't be a piece of marketing actually, because, you know, for me, women are my ideal client. And so every time I T and you know, 85% of women will eventually have a child at some point, something like that, right? 80%, something like that. So it's when I talk about. This, these issues. It's not to sell them something that day, but it's really, I guess, visibility is your, you know, one of the buzz words about this, but it's just, you know, I'm cutting through the noise of everything that they're looking at.
And then later they might, you know, cause I have a good system set up for, you know, I have emails and I have other things so that they may then find out what I actually do and then kind of go down that road with me. But, um, but I do think. You know, when you share. Cause you asked, like, how do you figure out how to articulate your big message when you share what really matters to you?
And here's how I did it. It took me three years. Um, so this isn't the best. This isn't the quickest quickest way, but, um, I just. Shared about stuff that really mattered to me, piss me off, broke my heart., things I really cared about in the world, like what I saw the good I saw no, that wasn't didn't have enough light being shined on it.
I wanted to shine a light and I did that for a solid year with no plan for how that would then relate to my business. So that worked so want, why? I don't know, like this is going to be that, I mean, if you're a for eliciting and you have a service-based business, very one-on-one it worked well because I didn't need.
Like I said, I don't need hundreds of people in a year. I need like 30 clients probably in an entire year. So, um, so that worked well to set myself part that way. I think if you're looking for, you know, anyway, tell me about like, if other types of people are looking for like a ton of people or, you know, if you're selling like, you know, hundreds of thousands of things.
Um, I think the strategy would be slightly different, but what I'm talking about today, I think is really building a personal brand. So even if you say run an e-commerce company or, um, do something where you sell a lot, a lot of stuff, you can still be you and be the face of that company and really be showing people, Hey, this is what our company stands for because I'm the founder.
And these are the values I'm bringing to, I've brought to creating this thing. So, um, so yeah, but as far as like the nuts and bolts of how I did it, I backwards, I backed into what I'm all about by just talking. I would just brainstorm or, you know, walk around all week and save notes in my phone. Like, Oh my God, this is happening.
I would take a note so that I could write about it later. Um, And then about, you know, and then I came up with my main, uh, mission statement, which is which I have in front of me because I always, I always keep it kind of near me, but it's when women give ourselves permission to claim a platform, speak a message and be heard.
We are dismantling patriarchy. So that's what all my stuff is about, but I, I didn't come up with that first. Thank you. Thank you. No, I didn't come up with that first.
Erika Tebbens: I want that on a cross stitch in my office.
Maggie Frank-Hsu: Yeah. Um, that's a good idea. We have time now, supposedly, right? Uh, not, I don't personally, cause I don't have any childcare, but, um, but yeah, so, but I didn't, I didn't sit down the other.
Piece of advice I would give, if I was giving, you know, to be like, just, if you want to start doing this is don't try to come up with that first, that big statement, because you will fail or, I mean, or if you want to come up with, Hey, if I wanted to sum up what I'm about in a sentence and write a sentence, but just don't think that that sentence is going to be, it's not a, it's not a commandment.
It's not in stone. It's going to change over time. And the only way you find out what it really is, is by continuing to post publicly, um, with some kind of regularity, whether that's on a social media platform on your blog or through an email letter, I send a weekly email letter, which is where I really get a lot of this.
I've been really creative there. Um, and that's where I've gotten a lot of this, these ideas refined.
Erika Tebbens: I love that. And I know we, we just have a few minutes left, um, but you have, you have, uh, like a three-part framework, uh, for people getting started, uh, in terms of their content and putting this all out there. So in the last few minutes we have, and then I'll make sure to put where people can find you and all of that, like people should definitely get on your email list, but can you share those three steps with us?
Maggie Frank-Hsu: Sure. Um, so the most important thing is, um, I call it the sweaty note philosophy. Cause I'm trying to name things because I want people to remember them. So the sweaty note philosophy, um, which I've written about a few times, um, on my blog and it's, um, just the idea came to me because I remembered in middle school, I had, I was a nerd and I had nerdy friends and we used to write each other letters, um, like online paper that we would, you know, drag out of our spiral notebooks and then, sorry. And then, so we would write these letters and we would fold them up and we would pass them in class. And we were calling, we, you know, they were like sweaty notes. So I always tell people, I think that's just the construction.
Can you hear that? I'm sorry, if you can. Those beeps.
Erika Tebbens: Oh, yeah, no, it's okay.
Maggie Frank-Hsu: I have just the construction in my house. My house is burning down anyway, so the sweaty notes. So we would fold them up, you know, really small or origami style and pass them around. And they, it was just like the best. When you got a note from your friend, like, um, you know, you would unfold them and you would read them, even if you were going to sit with that person at lunch that day, like getting the note was so like exciting and.
So, what I want you to do with that, people who are listening right now is when you write a piece of communication, particularly an email will help. It's easy to do this in email, but even, um, if you're doing an Instagram micro blog or whatever, an Instagram caption or, or doing Instagram stories is right like that, right.
To one person. You know, hopefully you know who your ideal client is. Think about someone in the back that was like, that you've already worked with. That was perfect. And you loved him or her. And they were just the best, you know, it was just, everything was smooth. They paid on time. They were the best person.
They got the most out of working with you. You think of that person, and then you write them a note that we'll make them feel that feeling this sweaty note that will make them feel like when they, when they open it, like there's, it's just so written directly to them. That they, they just are so excited.
They're there. I mean, look, it's marketing, so they're never going to be as excited as we were in middle school, but two that you're trying, that's your goal. You're trying to get to that place where they open an email from you and they're just like, Oh my God. I have been thinking that, and nobody's ever said it and she said it, or yes, yes, girl or whatever.
They're opening that note and they're reading it like, like that, with that energy. So you want to write the way to write something like that is to write to just one person do not write to your audience because that's not. A person, right. To a single person with a single point. Right? So, and this really helps when you're doing controversial stuff too, or stuff that you feel like butterflies in your stomach about publishing is like the way to get over those butterflies is.
So let's go with your example again, about the courses. It's like, you want to reach that one person that's going to save herself thousands of dollars and, you know, tens of dozens of hours in heartache. You know, because she's going to put all this time and energy and money into creating a course. That's not going to be profitable.
So is it better to protect yourself and not get some troll comments or is it better to actually put out there what, you know, that one person needs to hear so that she can actually save herself from that misery? Right? It's no contest. We are here to help. And so when we know we have something to say that that person is going to feel like.
Oh, huh. You know, at least it's going to slow them down or maybe like, you know, like we're here to do that. And, and people, you know, the women I work with every single one of them. Has that power in them to help somebody in that way. And, um, and it's awesome. And again, like what I said at the beginning, that's what we're doing here.
Right. Otherwise let's all go get jobs because it's much easier. Um, so that's, that's part of it. You said it was, I can't remember part two. I know part three is, let me see if I can remember part two later. Part three is right for the business you want, not the business you have. So. This is another kind of motivator.
So, um, you know, if you can just, I love, I love, and it's hard. It's hard, but some vision around like where you'd like to be in like three years or five years. What would you be? What would your marketing be like then? Right. Cause you don't want to be holding yourself back now because you know, you're not good enough or you're not there or whatever you, of course like, you know, everything takes baby steps, but I think it's okay to be bold sometimes with your writing.
Obviously that's all I've been talking about. So it's, it's more of like a state of mind. There's not really like a tip here, but it's just like, if you think about. Future you, who's going to be super confident and super successful. Like what kind of stuff is she talking about? And what's her voice, right?
What does she, is she playful? Is she funny? Is she, you know, Sigourney Weaver from working girl? Like she just knows what she wants, like what, and be that person. And because you are that person, it's just you, but it's in three years. Or five years or 10 years be her now and right. Like she would. Right. So that's, that's really important to me too.
Um, did I tell what was my and the other one was stories over tips oh yes. It was stories. Yeah. Very important. Um, thank you. So stories over tips just means, you know, how I was mentioning at the beginning. My first couple of years when I was blogging about Facebook ads or whatever, and I was going like three steps to blah-blah-blah.
I don't know, to reduce your cost of per acquisition or something. Um, blah boring. Right? So everybody thinks like you're yourself, social media content should be tips, right? Because people want quick, easy things they can do. They do want that. But the problem is, is when you create it with that format, you do not stand out.
They take the, your audience member, right? The person who's reading your content, takes the tip and forgets all about you. Um, and if they even notice it or they're so inundated and deluged with all this different content on the internet, they don't, they're just going to scroll right by, because it's not interesting.
So I always say stories over tips because, uh, so you don't have to, it doesn't have to be overly complicated, but if you can start the, the blog post or the Instagram post with, why are you talking about this today? So don't just give me three tips for, um, making a course. Let's say for starting a course or something.
Why are you showing up and writing about this today? Did you have an interaction with a client? Did you know, cause that's a great story. Always tell stories about clients, right? Because that immediately gives you some authority. Okay. She has clients. Good. She's not just some 23 year olds who decided to, you know, pretend she is an internet business person, but you know, so if you can tell a little story at the beginning about like, Hey, I was talking to one of my favorite clients, Sally Sue yesterday. And she said this thing, and I was like, no way, Sally Sue. I can't believe you still think that. And, and here's what I would do instead, you know, just, it's still a tip at the end, but it's like, there's just a lot more, um, there's just a lot more possibility that people will remember.
It came from you. And not from Google.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. There's like more meat to it. And, uh, and yeah, and I think that that is, um, I just love all of those and I agree, like I, the writing for the business that you want, I feel like it's, it's more a mental hurdle than anything, but like that is really powerful, that is super powerful.
And, um, same, yeah, same thing on the stories. And I also find, I get a lot of content inspiration just from my client calls. Cause I'll, I'll notice a lot of times things come up in themes, like, it'll be weird in one day, everyone will be talking about the same thing and I'm like, okay, I got to talk about this.
Like yes. On Instagram or in an email, like.
Maggie Frank-Hsu: Exactly. And when it's genuine, Oh my God, I got to go talk about this and you go and turn on stories and talk about it. It's just so much more engaging than like. Oh, it's on my content calendar for this week. And so I better go and create my widget of blog posts you know.
That's so boring. And like, it's just, you will, I mean, your content will die if it's boring, there's just way too much stuff out there. Um, I hate to be like a jerk about it, but like, just way too much out there, you can't be boring. I mean, you will, you will never attract everybody, but like so many more people will care about you. If you are, if you're genuine online.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, it's a hundred percent true. Um, thank you. I know you have to run. I will put everything in the show notes, but where can people find you so they can get all of your write emails?
Maggie Frank-Hsu: Yes. Um, thank you so much. Um, So I will give you the right one, Your Rusty Guide. That's a free guide to get started with writing.
If you know, in this way that we've been talking about if you've never done it before, so it's a PDF, but it's just something you can do in your notebook. So I will give you the link to that. And then my website is maggiefrank H-S-U dot com. And that's also my Instagram, Maggie Frank H-S-U. So come find me at those places.
Erika Tebbens: Awesome. Well, thank you. Uh, it looked like the Zoom gods were smiling on us. Audio worked while the whole world, this simultaneously using Zoom at this moment. Um, but thank you again. This was awesome. I feel like I could have talked to you for seven hours because I just, I, I believe this so much in my core.
And even though I believe it, I still have to remind myself of it sometimes. So,
Maggie Frank-Hsu: You're awesome. And I really appreciate you having me on like, um, I know we've been trying to connect for a while and, uh, I'm glad we could make it happen.
Yes, absolutely.
Erika Tebbens: Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the, Sell It Sister Podcast.
If you loved it and you want more, be sure to subscribe. So that you never miss an episode and then head on over to sellitsisterhood.com to join my free Facebook community group. And as your mama said, sharing is caring. So if you got a lot of value out of this episode, be sure to share it with your biz besties too.
Okay. Now get out there and Sell It, Sister.
