Ep. 046: Get More Clients Using Kick-Ass Content w/ Megan Barnhard

Writing content for your business can feel like a daunting, never-ending chore. If you haven't had to write professionally since college or high school, this can also feel wildly intimidating.

The good news is that writing a blog or social media post that teaches your ideal clients something valuable doesn't have to feel scary or hard. Nobody is expecting perfection, they just want your help. In this episode join me and writing coach Megan Barnhard as she breaks down what to write about and how to make the process feel simple and fun.


BIO:
Megan Barnhard helps transformational coaches write the words that resonate with their ideal clients. With over 13 years’ experience as a writing coach and business owner, Megan knows the power of authentic storytelling in marketing—and also how challenging it can be for business owners to write their own stories. Megan teaches people to find their flow and write with greater ease, whether they’re crafting website content, blog posts, or books, so they can share their story, inspire others, and attract more of the clients they feel called to serve. In addition to coaching, Megan has published 3 books about the writing process, blogged about writing for over 6 years, and written copy for online marketing experts and a New York Times best-selling author.


LINKS:
https://meganbarnhard.com/
-- Free Mini-Course on how to write content that connects: https://meganbarnhard.com/connect
--5 blog post "recipes" with full explanations and links to examples: https://meganbarnhard.com/blogrecipes
-- Writing tips and Inspiration on IG: https://www.instagram.com/writewithmegan/

OTHER LINKS & RESOURCES MENTIONED TODAY:

• Get my free No-Sleaze Sales Method delivered right to your inbox: Get Instant Access Here

• Want to read a transcript of this episode? Click here!

  Erika Tebbens: Grow marketing culture and sketchy MLMs have given modern business a bad reputation. It feels harder than ever to succeed as an entrepreneur, even though we've got an abundance of info and tech, right at our fingertips. If you feel frustrated, running your business, stress over your sales goals or are baffled by marketing strategies, you've come to the right place.

  You deserve to run a successful sustainable business without spamming all of your friends or wasting time and money on marketing gimmicks. This is the Sell It Sister Podcast, and you're going to learn how to make more money without complex systems or sleazy sales tactics. I'm Erika Tebbens and I teach highly motivated female and gender expansive entrepreneurs that selling doesn't have to suck.

  I've been running successful businesses and teaching others how to sell smarter, earn more and create raving fans for over 15 years. And I'm excited to share what I've learned with you. If you want success without truly serving your clients, profits without any passion or the next get rich quick scheme, I'm not your gal, but if you're all in as an entrepreneur, want to make a difference with your work and are ready to run a business you're proud of. Thank get ready to Sell It, Sister!

  If you find that you're struggling with sales conversations, if they stress you out, or you find that you're always stumbling over your words, or you're not closing as many sales as you like, or you just are really petrified of coming across as that pushy salesperson.

  I have great news for you. I have a totally free, completely, a hundred percent free, no catch, no sleaze sales method guide just for you. So when you download this guide and I'll give you the URL in just a second, you are going to be able to start selling smarter this week. Yes, really. So what this is is a framework, a customizable framework that works, whether you sell a product or a service or both.

  So this is not weird scripts that you have to memorize or anything really convoluted or complex. It's just an easy way to remember what to say, how to say it and why to say it when you're having a sales conversation with someone, I think you're going to love it.

  I know. I do. I know it's worked for me for many, many, many years. I know my clients love it too. It gives them a ton of confidence when it comes to selling and that confidence translates to closing more sales. Right? So if you need this, if this, this is a tool that seems like it's beneficial to you, I want you to go to bit.ly/slashsellitsisterpodcast. It's all lowercase. And it's all one word again. That's B-I-T dot L-Y, bit.ly essentially forward slash sell it's sister podcast.

  It's really, really quick to go through, but if you have any questions or anything, be sure to reach out because I want to make sure that you are a selling superstar.

  If you happen to catch episode 40, where I cover the basics of creating content for your business and you loved it and you wanted to learn more, then you're in luck. And even if you didn't catch it, you're still in luck because I brought on a content expert and we go into a deep, deep dive on the subject because I know that just the thought of having to write and then put that writing out into the world feels really scary. And a lot of people don't want to do it, but putting out content in your business, any type of content, not just podcasts or blogs, but anything that gives people value. And shows off how you can help them serve them, educate them all of the above that is all really good and really important.

  And I think, you know, if you think, wow, like this is a long episode, I don't really don't know if I want to devote that much time to listening. I would really encourage you to, even if you are not immediately thinking about content marketing, because Megan does do a phenomenal job. Of breaking down the logistics.

  So the actual writing, uh, how to come up with topics to write about and all of that stuff, right? The actual getting to the down and dirty of writing. But what I loved about our conversation is that we go off on these like really deep, really good, um, mindset tangents, because. The bottom line is, is a lot of times what happens when people think about putting out content is, they have two fears; they fear being vulnerable, showing up as their authentic, their real true, authentic self, right. Because they're afraid, Hey, if I put this out there, then I'm going to be judged. Right. I could be judged for sounding like a no at all, or because I don't know enough or, you know, so many other things that get in our heads.

  And that really partners with perfectionism, right? So we think that, Oh my gosh, I have to get this blog post perfect. It has to be like a college level dissertation or else it, you know, if it's not perfect, I'm just so much more vulnerable to that judgment attack. And. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, we can't really help who is judging us.

  And for what reason? I think that even if you care so little about actually blogging right now in your business, give this interview a listen anyway, because you, I think are going to get some incredibly good nuggets of mindset wisdom just around the case of showing up as your perfectly imperfect self in business so that you can attract those people to you, to work with who you will just absolutely adore working with them.

  And in case you're like, okay, show me the money girl, like Sell It, Sister Podcast. How do I make money off of this? Uh, I'm going to give you a real life example of just the other day, my newest client sent me a message. And she said, you know, I got so much value from your podcast that when the opportunity came up to work with you, I figured if I got so much just from her free stuff. Imagine what I would get if I paid her and worked with her as a client. Right? So this is real. I did not make that up. I did not solicit her for that advice. Like that messages popped up one day in my Voxer and I was like, Oh, damn, I need to mention this. So that is why you do it.

  It gives people a taste of what it would be like to work with you. And granted not everyone's going to hire you, but even if they don't, they might refer you to somebody else or it might open up other channels for collaborations and whatnot. So. I think you're going to just love, love, love this episode. And if the, if you want to do more writing in that part, scares the hell out of you, you're going to have your fears, hopefully quenched.

  By the time you hear what Megan has to say. So I interview Megan Barnhard you can find her at meganbarnhart.com or on Instagram @writewithmegan. And there's no H in her name. It's just M-E-G-A-N. So who is Megan Barnhard? Well, she helps transformational coaches write the words that resonate with their ideal clients.

  With over 13 years experience, as a writing coach and business owner, Megan knows the power of authentic storytelling in marketing, and also how challenging it can be for business owners to write their own stories. Megan teaches people to find their flow and write with greater ease, whether they're crafting website, content, blog posts.

  Or books so they can share their story, inspire others and attract more of the clients they feel called to serve. In addition to coaching, Megan has published three books about the writing process, blogged about writing for over six years and written copy for online marketing experts and a New York times bestselling author.

  So, Megan knows her stuff. I think you're going to love it. So let's dive into the episode and as always happy selling.

  Hey, Megan, welcome to the Sell It, Sister Podcast. I am so happy to have you because as of the recording of this episode, tomorrow's episode is a very basic primer on content, but you are a content expert.

  So now this is like part two. Now we get to do the deep dive and people will actually get to hear from somebody who does this professionally. How you create content and not just any content, how you create authentic content easily to get more clients. So welcome to the podcast.

  Meghan Barnhard: Thank you. Thank you so much for having me, Erika.

  I'm really excited to be here and it's funny. I almost have like a cringe moment when you say I'm a content expert, because what I really think I am is a connection expert. And I think a lot of our conversation will probably be about how those two things are related. Um, but yeah, I'm really excited to be, um, talking with you because I think that creating content is such a huge part of selling effectively and also a huge part of what holds people back from selling.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I love. Connection is one of my core values. So I love to hear you say that. And I would agree. I think that content is this, like, you know, I don't even know, thousand pound gorilla that is in the realm of business where people are like, I don't, I, I just don't even know where to begin and I don't know.

  If it's even worth my limited time to bother and I'm never going to get it perfect. Quote, unquote perfect. So like what's the point? Shouldn't I just like. I don't know, it invest in a social media manager or something instead, and yeah.

  Meghan Barnhard: Right, right. And, and so we kind of differ the problem. Like, can you, um, are you my content?

  Are you my content? You know, we just keep pushing it down the line. So maybe that's a great place to get started is.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah.

  Meghan Barnhard: What does that term even mean when we say content? Yes. So as a writing coach, and as a writer, I distinguish between content and copy. Um, in the following way, other people might do it differently, but just so we're clear on our terms.

  So I call copy what you write to sell on your website. So that's on a sales page. Um, and if you're writing a sales email, you know, we talk about copy as this is the very polished, very thought through piece of sales machinery that is leading people specifically to a call to action to get this thing. And when I say content, I'm referring to pretty much everything else you're writing for your business.

  So that includes blog posts, that includes posts on your Facebook and your Instagram pages. That includes, um, even videos you're creating. It doesn't have to be things that are written down. Um, anytime you're sharing words that contain your messaging about your business and what you do and how you help people that is not specifically, um, in the container of this is a sales email, and it starts in this way and takes people through these very specific steps and then there's a buy now button or sign up button, um, all of that. So basically everything else you're creating is what I mean, when I say content, do you have a, I'm curious, do you have a different definition or how would you?

  Erika Tebbens: No, that's, that's pretty much how I view it, uh, in entirely. I, I think that a lot of times we just, because blogging or article writing is, uh, so commonly known, I think when we think of content, we're like, oh, people are, you know, they're referring to writing a blog post or writing like an article for LinkedIn or, or, um, maybe they're lucky enough to get picked up by a larger, uh, thing like Forbes.

  Like I know a few people who are contributors to Forbes like that is content. And I think that it's really easy to overlook the fact that content can be, yeah, it can be like, whatever you post every Monday on Instagram, if you're like on Mondays, I like to do a quick, like teaching post that is content but I think that sometimes we, I don't know, that seems too small or something. And so we just overlook it and we make it out to be this bigger meatier scarier thing than it than it actually is. But yeah, I that's. That's how I view it too. As like, copy is more like sales copy. Content is more a sales copy.

  You're like inviting somebody to take action to do something. And content is more like value driven.

  Meghan Barnhard: Yeah, and this is actually a great way to think about, um, you were talking about the size and some people may feel well, if I'm not going to get that guest post on that really popular website or Huffpost or Forbes or whatever it is, then that's not, it, it's not real content, but if you think of content as whatever gets the attention, the interest and tugs on the emotions gets that connection with the people that you eventually want to be reading your sales copy. Then that definition to me feels so much cooler and something I want to be part of because it just means, Oh, if I create something that helps people feel seen and heard, that helps them connect with me, that resonates with them, that interests them.

  That helps them. That gives them a tip that solves a small problem. You know, any time I'm creating words, written video. I don't know some other technology that's yet to be invented holograms. Like anytime I'm creating that for people I'm creating content, which is getting them one step closer to saying yes, I want to, um, you know, be part of your, uh, well, I was going to say part of your funnel, but I've heard of your orbit and like, I want more, I want, yeah, we'll be circling you.

  Yes. And I want to, um, hear about those offers that you have.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah, no, I love that because I, um, it makes me even think, uh, I don't know if you know, Rachel K. Albers like, her businesses RKA Inc. but she has a YouTube channel called Awkward Marketing and it's the funniest thing ever. And yes, she puts out written content as well.

  And it's really good, but like her main content driver. And not that everyone has to do this. It's a ton of work, but are these like really humorous videos and you can kind of, uh, like right away, you realize when you watch them. If you want to be in her orbit, or if you're like, this is like silly and unprofessional and I want nothing to do with it.

  You kind of are instantly like, I want to be in this chick's orbit or this is not for me.

  Meghan Barnhard: Yeah. I'm not familiar with her, but do you know? Yes, Yes, Marsha?

  Erika Tebbens: No.

  Meghan Barnhard: Oh, okay. She, she does videos where she, um, cuts between herself wearing different wigs, creating scenes and having conversations with herself about, um, her topics of expertise.

  So I totally get that when you know, right away. Oh yeah. I'm I'm with this person and you get that, that recognition. Um, and that's that's so great. Right? I mean, it, it lets you, um, show up and be yourself. Um, it gives other people instant recognition. They either are, or aren't if they aren't totally cool, like that's nice, you know, no hard feelings.

  Um, and if they are then they're, um, they're able to get the rest of what they need from you, you know, and maybe they'll follow you just for a little while and then they'll get some tips and they'll take action and go their merry way. Awesome, maybe they'll come with you on the whole journey and end up working with you as a client and get that help.

  But, um, that, uh, showing up and being who you really are, so people get a chance to choose is so powerful. And then people are self-selecting and saying, oh yeah, um, the message you have the, we you're talking about that the way you're showing up in the world. I resonate with that, give me more.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And I know, uh, you know, anyone who listens, uh, hopefully by now knows I'm all about authenticity.

  And I, when I say that, I mean, it in like the truest form, not the, just like trendy, you know? Oh, you gotta be authentic online. Uh, but like really, really being yourself. And I know we're going to talk about that more, but before I think people can even get to that point. To me, there are two things that come up.

  One like, uh, I haven't, you know, maybe like they say, I'm not a great writer or it's been years since I've been in school. I don't even feel confident in. The actual writing part of it. And two like, what the hell do I write about? Like, I'm just a, nobody, I have nothing to say. Anything I say has been said before, or Is it groundbreaking? Or, you know, we, we like talk ourselves out of all of these things.

  And so when you start to work with somebody, what would you say on the front of the actual writing and then also, what the hell are you going to write about?

  Meghan Barnhard: Both are great questions. And I, to me they're really equally important. So I came at writing coaching, um, from being a teacher and, um, actually starting as, um, a special ed, um, classroom assistant and, uh, learning how people learn differently and learning that we all have really different, um, hardware in our brains. And there are all these different inroads.

  And, um, from that perspective, you know, when I work with somebody on writing, um, first of all, I'm aware of the traumas that many, many adults, not just business owners, but many adults carry around writing and I'm sensitive to those.

  And, you know, my, I'm picturing the kids that I worked with in classrooms and thinking, you know, the, I may be seeing the adult version of that and the really lasting negative impact it has on us when somebody criticizes our writing is a heartbreaking to me. And if you think about it, it makes sense though, because it's our self-expression.

  So we're young, we're in the world, we're learning how to navigate lots of things, we're expressing ourselves. And somebody makes a comment like, Oh, that's not how you use a comma or your penmanship is bad. And what we internalize is I'm not supposed to express myself. So I just kind of want to put that out there for anybody listening, who feels that pain of I'm not a writer and sometimes it's not a trauma.

  Sometimes it's a family dynamic. Oh my sister's the writer. I can't be the writer, but for anybody having a feeling of, I'm not a writer, um, I feel really passionately that self-expression is everybody's birthright. It doesn't mean you have to love writing. That's that's cool, but that you have a right to share your message.

  And so what I do when I work with clients is help them find the, the process that works for them to do it. You know, how do you brainstorm where, um, what kind of outline is working for you? Let's get into that drafting process and really get experimental. Um, what's working, what isn't, how can we do more of what's working?

  So that, that piece of it is real, it's a real block. And, um, um, it's something that I really love helping people overcome because I think that's. I just think it's really important. We all know we are allowed to express ourselves again. You don't have to love writing. That's totally cool, it's my jam. It's not everybody's but if you have a message you want to share, you deserve to share it.

  So I'm really, I get like mama bear about that. Don't, don't anybody be saying somebody can't write or can't express themselves. Um, And then when it comes to what to write. So I mentioned that I, um, have a background in education and I spent a lot of years teaching lit analysis essays, which are probably one of the things that people remember writing in school.

  Um, and, you know, are, are horrified by thinking about, but that means my approach to writing is really systematic. So thinking about, um, if you remember learning, you know, the essay structure from school, one of the things people don't like is that it's formulaic, but for me, the formula is where you have security and safety, and then you get to come in with your creativity and expression and add to that formula.

  Um, so let me, and let me know if I'm using terms and you're like, I'm not sure what you mean.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Yeah. So I know, um, Yeah, I know there's this big, like it, it gets confusing and so for background, I was an English major and I went to school to be a high school teacher and I did teach high school for a little bit.

  So for me, I was always like, okay, yeah. Like five paragraph essay. Like when you're, when you like major in English in college, you're like, what's that 10 page paper that I put off all semester, that's fine. I could do it in one week. Like you just get so used to like. Okay. I know how to make my note cards for my outline and blah, blah, blah.

  And just start to like, crank that stuff out. But when, when it's like you and you're in business and you're like, well, I don't, I don't know. Like, am I supposed to be formal? Am I not? Like, I feel like there's all these different rules. Like I feel like school is like, teaches you the rules for one very specific type of writing, but content writing in a business is sort of like a different animal and a lot.

  It's not a five pair. Like when you write a blog post, it's not like a five paragraph essay and link, you can use swear words and you can use dialectical words and slang and like, talk in the way that your clients talk. It doesn't have to be something where you're like citing sources, like, you know, how you would like in a term paper.

  Um, and so I think that that really throws people for a loop. And I liked, um, before, like we started recording, you were talking about templates. So like, I want, I think that that's helpful to sort of, when things feel like, Oh my God, it's like, there are no rules to this other way of writing, where do I even begin?

  Or how am I even supposed to like, stare at that blank computer screen? What do you give people as a way to like jumpstart that process.

  Meghan Barnhard: Sure, sure. Yeah. And I was using formula and formula is a very, unappealing word. And generally, actually what I talk about our writing recipes. Um, but let's think about a blog post for a second.

  Like in general, what is a blog post? It's like a little bit of an introduction saying like, Hey, this is what this is going to be about. Then it's some information, maybe it's, um, three tips for doing this or how to stop doing that. Or the five biggest mistakes people do in doing this. Um, it delivers the information, right.

  And then it kind of wraps up and says like, Oh, so this is what you learned. And you know, this is, uh, how it's helpful and that. Really is. I mean, it's a very similar actually to that five paragraph essay, even though you don't have to follow that rigid structure, but that is a writing recipe, that's a template, right?

  I'm going to, I'm going to start by just introducing and telling people what this is all about. I'm gonna deliver some content and wrap it up. And then what I teach people when I teach blogging is different. Um, writing recipes for different types of, let's say like blog posts in this case. So are you answering a frequently asked question?

  Are you helping people have a quick win by saying, Hey, are you stuck with this thing? Here's one thing you can do. Are you rounding up some of your favorite resources? You know, these are the five tools that I use in my business every day and sharing that. And what I notice is that when, um, people hear are these writing recipes.

  They hear these templates. All of a sudden their creativity starts going crazy. Um, like I had, I had somebody tell me, um, it made me think of, uh, the sixth sense, like I see dead people, cause she said, no, I see blog posts wherever I go. Right? Because she has that template in mind for like, What's a question I can answer.

  What's a quick tip I can give people, what's a success story from one of my clients. Um, what are the resources that I'm using? So when, when we have those structural, um, foundations, like when we have those structures in place and we go like, Oh no, I can just put my creativity into it. And like you were saying my voice and do I write in terrible puns?

  Yes, I do. You know, or, you know, what's the style that I use, but you get to overlay that on something that already exists. So instead of trying to invent both the content and the structure you're and here, I mean content in terms of like, the what you're writing about, and this is kind of where this question started, right?

  As what the heck do I write about? So you're coming up with, what should I write about, but the responsibility of how should I present it is already taken care of. And you're using things that one, you know, work, cause this is how, you know, blog posts are done. It's tried and true. Excuse me. And two, you know, it's delivering value for your readers because you're defining the template, the writing recipe based on the value, right? What am I providing? I'm providing a quick, win, an answer to a question, et cetera. Um, so that's for me, the power of using templates. And the reality is you can create, I'm giving examples of ones that I use across, um, uh, types of business.

  You know, like these are the ones that I found that work for most businesses. So they're where I start with my clients. Um, And I've actually got them laid out, um, in, uh, a blog post that's on my website. So people can take a look at them for, for free. Uh, but the, the reality is you can come up with your own templates.

  You go, gosh, I really like to do, you know, the following for my people. I like to tell them the story I like to, whatever it is. Um, but once you've created, um, kind of a, a core group of templates for yourself, You'll start seeing content everywhere.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. I love how you call them recipes too. Cause that feels so much less scary than like a formula or, or anything. And I think I, so I am a total like obliger teacher's Pat, like did really well in school. Um, because if I know this is the rubric and this is what you have to do to succeed, then I'm just like, okay, well I'll just I'll do that. And, uh, and that was not ever really, um, hard for me, but I think that.

  When you go into it with no framework, no recipe, no. Anything. You begin to talk yourself out of it. Cause you're like, I'm going to get it wrong way. I don't even know where to begin. Like do I like, you know, do I stick with the five paragraph essay structure and concrete detailed commentary commentary conclusion?

  Like I could, you know, say that in my sleep, but yeah. Like, is that, is that what I'm supposed to do? If I don't do that? Is that wrong? Or if I do that, is that wrong, and that when you're kind of in the world of content, it's not, you know, no one's grading you. No, one's no teacher is going to creep up behind you and be like, wow, this is really terrible.

  You were supposed to do it this one way, but you veered in this other direction. And so now you get a big fat F in red marker. Well, that it's really that yeah, there are recipes and different ways you can approach it. And that you can be a bit more casual and a bit more free in how you, how you put it out there.

  I like that. Like, even just, just hearing you say recipe, I'm like, Oh, I'm not, you know, I'm not afraid of a recipe, like a recipe is just your, you know, you step one, step two, step three, whatever. And then like, boom, you're done. Like you put it in the oven and then out comes the cake like, great. We're done.

  Meghan Barnhard: And I'll, I'll say some more about recipes. Cause I'll tell you, there's a kind of a funny reason why. Or there's a reason why it's funny that I create writing recipes because of the way I actually use recipes. But, um, I just want to mention that there are some people who come at looking at writing and they have that worry you were talking about, I'm going to do it wrong and I'm not going to use the right structure.

  And there are also people who come at writing and the blink page is far scarier than anything else because it's, there are infinite possibilities. So the reason I like recipes is because it helps people having both of those panic moments either. Oh, there's a way I have to do it and it's gotta be this.

  And I'm gonna get, you know, the fear of the red pen. Um, again, going back to that writing trauma, but there are also people who have that I could write anything, you know, the infinite possibility. So here's my thing about recipes. I am a recipe rebel. I love cooking. I look at a recipe and then go. Oh, that's nice, that's what you think. Right. And then I proceeded to do my own thing. So my idea of writing recipes comes with this kind of little asterisk of use this as a recipe, the way you would, if you just didn't have an emotional investment, you're like, Oh, cilantro. I don't like cilantro. I'm going to use Bazell instead.

  Does that make sense? Where yes, no, the guidelines you go. I know. So it's, you know, some kind of herbs there, right. But lemon juice, lime juice or vinegar. Okay. Let me use the thing that I like, and that works for me. So when I teach people recipes, it's with the caveat of like, I am a person who uses recipes as a guideline and a suggestion, and I appreciate that.

  It tells me okay. The structure and the cooking time, and you need some kind of, um, herbs there, but I feel free to make my own substitutions.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. I dig that because I am that person when they're like two cloves of garlic, I'm like, who only uses two cloths. That's insane. Okay. I was going to go the no, till now, like half a whole head of garlic.

  Yeah. Um, Yeah. It's I, when I, when I cook, I'm a recipe rebel, when I bake, I'm like very literal. Um, it's yeah.

  Meghan Barnhard: As we should be, right? Baking is chemistry. Yeah. But, and that's, I mean, you, I'm so glad you mentioned that your reaction to the word recipe is, is different. And what I find so often is that just taking something out of the realm of writing helps us immensely.

  And, you know, if you think about, um, How do, how have I successfully done this process before or, um, where I'm, I need to plant something and you take it out of the realm of writing. I, Oh, I had a really cool experience with a client who was actually working on a novel and was really stuck on the outlining process.

  And I just asked that question. What's something else you've planned in your life successfully. And how did you plan it? She said, well, I used to be in interior design and I would make these mandella for the various rooms. I said, Oh, that's cool. I said, have you tried making a mandalla outline for your novel? No, but she did.

  And it worked and it was, it blew my mind because it was, I never could have taught her to do that process. It wouldn't have occurred to me, but she, because we took it out of the realm of writing, all of a sudden the pressure disappeared and it just became, how do I know? I plan.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah.

  Meghan Barnhard: Right? So that, um, that transplantation that, um, I wish I would have done this consciously.

  I would've, I would have been such a mastermind of psychological, uh, uh, help, but really it just is that that word seemed natural to me because the kitchen for me is a place where I feel free to experiment and it's fun. Um, so I just wanted to have that feeling. You know, what, if you had a way of getting into your writing that felt lighter, that didn't have the heaviness of whatever you're, you're coming with.

  You know, whether you have a background in writing and it's all the pressure and stress, if I got to get it right. Or you don't, and you're not even sure what it looks like, or, you know, anywhere in between, if you can just make it fun, make it, give yourself permission.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Yeah. And that, that I think is really key is just give yourself permission to, to just do it.

  So now, all right. So people are going to go check out your blog post they're going to see your basic recipes for different types of content. So now they're like awesome, Megan, thank you. I feel a lot better about the process. I don't feel as like stupid or incompetent or terrified, but now, Oh my gosh. I, what, what do I say?

  Where do I even begin? What do people want to hear? Cause I know, you know, we, we talked about it a little bit, but the giving value and I think like, because, like you said, connecting people for selling and since it's Sell It, Sister, like the end goal is always to run that thriving business, which requires money coming in.

  So. Uh, and I know when we, when we get to authenticity and perfectionism and all of that, like that brings up more juicy stuff in how this actually like converts the perfect people to, or attracts the perfect people to us so we can convert them into clients. But, uh, but yeah, so now, now you're going to, you've blocked out a whole day, you're going to a coffee shop. You're going to write this content, but what is going to be valuable to your people? Like how do we know that Megan?

  Meghan Barnhard: Uh, I have a really sneaky way that I write content. And I'm just going to share it with you.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah, go ahead.

  Meghan Barnhard: So I would imagine that a lot of your listeners are naturally good at helping people.

  Do you think that's probably true of your audience?

  Erika Tebbens: Yes, definitely.

  Meghan Barnhard: Okay. Perfect. Then you have the secret weapon for marketing. Here's how I actually figure out what I'm going to write about. I spend a lot of time in online forums, mostly Facebook groups, um, with other business owners. People who are, you know, potentially my ideal clients.

  I work a lot with coaches, so I'm in and I am a coach, right? So I'm in a lot of groups with coaches. I spend a lot of time listening to people and answering questions in my genuine person. Uh, with my genuine person, hat on, not as a I'm sitting down and creating content. So for example, if I'm in a group and somebody was like, Oh man, I have this, I'm trying to do this.

  And I can't figure out I'll just go in and act like a person and ask some questions and say, Oh man, I, I feel you I've been there and get into a conversation with them. And that might result in my sharing of blog post I've already written, or if I don't have something written, I will say like, Hey, here's three things you might try or, you know, here's my recommendation or, or, or do this.

  And what I've just done there is help somebody- the most natural thing in the world. And then I take what I wrote when I was in that moment of feeling inspired to help somebody or answer her question or, um, give some tips and I copy and paste it and I ask myself, okay, how else do I want to share this?

  Where else do I want to share this? And then I use a recipe to create something of the right size and shape to be shared on that platform. Which is like cheating, right? I mean this, but, but this is how I know that I'm creating something that is helpful for people. And it's also how I really tap into writing.

  Um, I know that a lot of people, um, when they sit down to write, think they need to be somebody else. Especially when we write for our business or maybe just writing generally, but we write for our business and we go, okay, now I have to be the super serious expert. I have to know everything or I have to, um, whatever it is, some people may think, Oh, I have to be extra clever or I have to be, Hey boo, hey honey. Hey, gorgeous. Whatever it is, whatever's the trend. They may think, Oh, I have to be that thing. Um, and if you can trick yourself into, uh, just writing to actual people and answering their actual questions and then copy and paste it, save it and say, okay, now where do I want to reshare this? If it's on Facebook, that'll be a certain length of time.

  You know, if it's on Instagram, that'll be a certain length then, um, I'll add images. If it's a blog posts, I'm going to follow this other recipe. Um, But I spend a lot of time listening to people. And one of my favorite things ever is when a client or somebody I'm interacting with on social media says, you read my mind and I'm thinking, no, I read your words.

  You know, I listened to you. Um, and I listened to other people like you. Um, and, and the more I can show up, um, Uh, the more I can show up in real conversation with people, the more I can inspire trust in others to tell me what they're really struggling with. And then that's where I go, Oh, those are the questions I want to be answering.

  And those are the things I want to be speaking to. So really it's all boiling down to I'm showing up as a person, creating a field and a vulnerability that invites other people to show up as people. And then just speaking to what, what they're saying, I'm listening to them instead of being the expert coming and going.

  I know what you need to hear about. I mean, I have done my fair share of that. Like I started out rubbish and blogging, just like, I think most people do don't get me wrong. Um, but. I'm now, um, the pressure is off of me to know everything, to be perfect, to have exactly the right answer. And instead, my job is to really listen and to figure out what do I know that can help you?

  Or how can I point you in a direction that will help you? And sometimes that help is just about seeing you. And you feel hurt. It might not be that I have some great piece of advice. It might just be like, Whoa, I, Erika, I feel you I've totally been there. So, sorry you're going through this right now.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Yeah. And I think so, uh, right before we hopped on, I went into my Insta stories and I use little question sticker and I was like, Hey, what do you want to hear in 2020 on this podcast? Because I can come up with a bunch of ideas and I have some ideas, but. Is there something I'm missing or is there something that multiple people will say that is a similar, you know, they all have the similar topic they want me to talk about.

  Then I know I should put out an episode on that sooner than later, because multiple people said they want to hear about it. And, uh, and I actually am going through right now and taking. All of the, uh, intake form responses from either client calls or discovery calls from last year and putting them all together.

  So that way I can see, like, that is a great way even if somebody is like, Oh my gosh, I'm so pressed for time. And I cannot write a blog posts like this week, or maybe even this month. Uh, I'm just drowning. A great thing is like if I get off a client call and whatever we were talking about, I know other people struggle with, I can just pop into Instastories and do something really quick, or I can pop in to regular, regular Instagram feed and break it down into like really bite-sized things.

  So, one of my most popular posts from last year was a post about what I do and what I teach my clients to do when they're feeling overwhelmed. And I think I gave just like four or five quick tips. It was very actionable. It was like, do this, then do this, then do this. And it was something you could do in like 10 or 15 minutes.

  And it was that exact thing. Like I was like, it's not a whole blog post. Like it could, I could make it into a whole longer format thing. But I was like, all right, this is something I'm constantly working on in myself and with my clients. So if we need to hear it, there are other people who need to hear it too.

  And like, let me not overthink it. Let me just like, get it down and out into the world so that other people can benefit from it. And I was amazed like people who were not already following me and stuff, like people were sharing it, people were tagging other people. And I was like, Oh, this really resonated.

  And it wasn't. Yeah. In a content plan. It wasn't super thought it wasn't anything. I was just like, crap. I have 10 minutes, you know, Hey, I can post about this today. This is great. And like, I know it will help people and I just did it and it did. Um, and I think that, yeah, like it's using that feedback of like, what are you actually already helping people with?

  Um, And I know for me, because a lot of times my brain will want to go like, well, is that enough? Is that, you know, that's not, that's not like meaty enough, like the English teacher and my brain is like, like you said, cheating, like, this is like easy. It's too easy too. It's too easy. Like we need to ha you know, I don't know, be like sweating as we're creating content or something.

  And it's like, no, it's. It's that one thing that is gonna could give somebody that AHA moment or that moment of empathy or that, like you said, that quick win. And then they're like, wow. They, that was, that was valuable. Like that's where that value comes in.

  And then

  Meghan Barnhard: You're creating that relationship and that Goodwill.

  So I. I wonder if this is true for selling too. Cause I'll tell you the number one mistake I've made in creating content. And I think it might be what people mistake, people make in selling as well. But the number one mistake in creating content I've made personally is trying to give people everything at once.

  And it comes from exactly what you're saying. That's not enough that can't be enough. And we are the experts in our own businesses. So I'm walking around all the time, thinking about writing. All of my thoughts. I mean, some of them are about my cat, I guess, but all my thoughts all the time are writing and this and this and this.

  So in my conversation, in my head, you know, yes, this is already what we're talking about. That's not the case for everybody else. And so the mistake I've made is I have to go from that conversation and then go up a level for it to be value. And I'm trying to deliver content at level 57. And other people are walking around thinking about creating content and thinking about writing at level four.

  Yeah, and I'm not serving them. It's like, so firstly, I'm making it much harder for myself. If I'm at level 57, then again, it's gotta be all this great stuff, but I'm also not serving people. If their thinking is there, like I'm at step four, what do I do now? And I try to take them to 57. I'm overwhelming them.

  This is where we see people with their eyes glazed over and the, I guess the parallel I'm seeing that similar to, if you are, you know, starting in to try to sell your audience with like, here's the big ultimate result you can get and they don't even know what realm you're in. You're not making that connection.

  So the really beautiful thing is that by making it easier on yourself, you're I, I shouldn't have said it's cheating because it's not at all, but it is really a revolutionary way to think about creating content. It's different from what we impose on ourselves. So the more you're giving yourself that space to just show up and listen and answer people's questions.

  Yes. The easier it is for you, but the more helpful you're actually being. And there's another piece to that because I encounter so many business owners who are still working on that one blog post. That's going to be so amazing, but they can't publish it yet because it's not amazing yet. And that blog post isn't helping anybody while it's sitting on your hard drive.

  It's only helping people at the point where it's out in the world. Um, so this is if we're ready to segue into like, people's authentic creative process. This is a good segue.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah.

  Meghan Barnhard: We're okay.

  Erika Tebbens: No, Absolutely and I, um, to reiterate what you were saying about doing too much, and I will say so, why, I, I often think there are certain things where I'm like, this feels like cheating, and I think it's because, and I've only ever lived in America in America.

  We had this belief that the only way to do something the right way is for it to be really challenging. Like for us to get any benefit from something, we have to really struggle through it.

  Meghan Barnhard: Yes. It's rich and work ethic.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Yeah.

  Meghan Barnhard: And if you didn't survive that freezing cold winter eating only hard rule, then.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah, then you don't deserve anything. And I, and I've had to really, in the last few years, like deprogram that belief out of myself and there are a lot of times where I still will catch myself. Like, so for instance, the thing about collecting all of those things for my acuity, like intake forms. I almost put it on my to-do list.

  And I was like, I don't, I have a VA who I pay. This is something they can do. You don't have to do this dummy. Like, this is like a perfect task you can outsource. And like, but it, that feels, it feels too easy. It feels like it's cheating. Like, Oh, then I don't have to sit and slog and like, Do all of this, you know, data tracking or whatever.

  So, yes. And I think that there are those things like in selling to, and I'm totally guilty of it because, um, I'm such a like type A striver. And again, you know, I'm like the Lisa Simpson, like teacher's pet, I, uh, I want everyone to have everything. Like, I want somebody to be like, great. Now we have everything and I can do it all, but I conscientiously have to do this just all the time.

  I don't know if it'll ever go away. I always have to be like, less is more, less is more, less is more, um, because you're right. Like if they, if it's like a fire hose of information, like if you had a fire hose pointed right at you, you not be,

  Meghan Barnhard: Quenching your thirst.

  Erika Tebbens: No, it's not quenching your thirst. Like now you're in pain and you're being knocked to the ground.

  Whereas like, if it's just a garden hose, like you can get a nice sip. Like you can quench your thirst from a garden hose. And I think that our society tells us, and especially as like helpers, like more's always better. And like, you have to solve everyone's problems right now, or you suck and you're terrible.

  And it's like, no, you could just solve one teeny thing, give them that value, build that trust. And then when they have that problem solved, then they can actually focus on what are the other things now that they can like learn from you and get from you because, yeah.

  Otherwise

  Meghan Barnhard: it can create kind of a guilt cycle where, um, and this is not something that I came up with, the wisdom that I really appreciated hearing from, um, somebody else's like, if I give you this much and if you're an obliger, you'll think, well, I can't go back and learn more from Megan again until I finished that first chunk of homework.

  Yeah. Right. So that, that content that's coming at you like a fire hose, um, it's not only like overwhelming for you in the moment, but also then it probably induces this guilt of like, well, I've got all the information and I'm still not making it work. So there must be something wrong with me, there are a lot of us who are, um, maybe self described as overachievers or, um, uh, Been conditioned to think that if something's not working, it's because we're not working hard enough again, going back to that, what you were talking about.

  So the beauty of creating in your flow is that one things are easier for you. So you're actually going to create right, when you, when you create content from this authentic place and you just. Um, Oh, I just answered your question. You know, that was natural. I'm just coming from this place of wanting to help people.

  You'll actually do it. So you'll find you're creating content more often. It's easier. You're enjoying it more and that's a, that's a cycle, right? The things that are easier for us and that we enjoy, we do more. Um, you're also, I think, I think there's an energy to writing and I, uh, it's not 100% the case, but I think most of the time when it takes us a lot of unpleasant effort in the sense of like, Oh, I really worked hard and I feel proud on this, proud about this, but I feel like when we slog through writing and get it out there, it has a sloggy energy to it. So you may have spent a lot of time and really pushed yourself and force yourself to finish it. And it goes out and it doesn't get a big response because there's like that icky energy travels with it. I don't know how to explain it. I don't know if that's physics or you just magical thinking, but I honestly believe that that's the case. Um, but then I want to get back to this idea of your writing process and how both of these things come together. So you talked about.

  Creating by answering people's questions. I talk with a lot of people who say, Oh, it's hard for me to sit down and write, but I could talk to you all day. Um, and like one of my secret weapons is that when I'm in a writing coaching session, I get people talking like. I'm good at asking good questions. And so I get them talking and then, you know, we take notes and have a recording and they're like, Oh my gosh, that's exactly how I wanted to say it.

  And I wasn't able to write it, but I was able to say it. So sometimes, um, we think like I have to create content. So that means I have to write and I don't like writing. And that's the end of the story. But if you know, what gets you into that feeling of being in flow, use that, and then take that and put it in recipes.

  So for example, um, part of my process is often doing Facebook lives. I have a free Facebook group. Somebody will ask a question and I think, well, gosh, it would just be easier for me to answer that by doing a quick video than typing out something. So I can do the group. I do, um, a live video and. Then my writing process is I take that video.

  I listened back. I, you know, kind of take some notes from it. And then I decide again where I want to put it. And based on that, I'm choosing the length and, uh, what kind of intro and what kind of emoji or whatever else, but that could be, you know, part of somebody's writing process that makes all the difference is give yourself permission to go. How would I just naturally get this information out? I encourage my clients carrier, you know, um, your phone with you get a, um, like a voice app or voice memo app. Um, while you're driving, while you're washing dishes, um, wherever you are, where those ideas start flowing, capture them the way they come out organically.

  And then you can create the rest of the process to getting them out to people. But. I wanted to just kind of connect those two dots of if you create in a way that's easy for you, you do it, you ended up just getting that when you get that content that is at the right level, because you're really answering people's questions and engaging and has all that good energy behind it.

  Cause you're showing up going. Oh, I want to answer that question. Like that's a really great feeling. When you see somebody pose a question and you're excited and you go, Oh, I kind of want to ignore my to-do list for the rest of the day or not the rest of the day, but I kind of want to bump whatever I was going to do next.

  And just get in there and answer that. If you start thinking about that as I'm creating content, your whole. Content creation habit will shift.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I think that's really helpful. And I think going back to the, like, it feels like it's cheating or whatever. I think again, because the way that we learn writing is like that it has to be this very highly thought out thing.

  You have to do lots of research. You have to, you know, get your index cards out and make notes and lay them, you know, the whole thing. But, um, I really view it as like content that I'm putting out. It needs to be for me, for my process. It needs to be something that if I was, I dunno, at a networking event and their featured speaker for the night, like had the flu and had to cancel at the last minute.

  And they're like, Oh, we need somebody to give a quick talk on whatever, any of the main topics that I like to talk about that on the fly, I could be like, give me. Like two minutes and a cocktail napkin just to like jot a couple things down and then I should be able to kind of get up and like riff. Like it's not, so I'm not like going to, you know, encyclopedias, I'm not going to the library.

  I'm not doing all this deep research. Like. Because I want my content to be in my zones of genius of what I like to teach about. It should be something for me that like, like I'm not going to talk to somebody I'm not going to create any content that has to do with SEO. That is not my zone of genius. I don't want it to be, I don't care.

  Like, so I would never, I it's not, um, Beneficial to me or my intentions with my business and client getting and anything like that. Like, I don't want to spend a lot of time researching SEO just so I can write a post about it because that's not my wheelhouse, like my wheelhouse is other things. So it's like the contradictory thing of like, This stuff I'm going to create content on feels so easy for me that like I could bust it out because I'm staying in my lane.

  Like I'm giving value in the Erika lane, which is like a perfect, I guess, a perfect segue to like authenticity and like freaking out about perfectionism and all that stuff. Like I love to talk about. And I'm so glad that you like to talk about it too, because like, when I stay in my lane, like I'm being authentic to me and it just makes the process easier.

  Meghan Barnhard: Yeah. I think also when we're really authentic, we're more comfortable. And, um, I think of that example of like a research paper as a wall and when we show up authentically we're. Inviting conversation. So instead of being a solid wall, it's, um, I don't know, like a lattice and there's space for other people to give their input.

  Right? So part of showing up, uh, authentically is saying, I don't have all of the answers. Um, I'm not, or I guess it's more about. Not worrying that somebody will see a gap or a hole and yeah. So yeah, not having all the answers. So if somebody says, Oh, Erica, can you help me with my SEO saying. Um, no, that's really not what I do.

  Uh, you know, I'm happy to send you some resources that I, or, you know, some people I know about, but nope, sorry. That's not what I do. There's so much honesty in that. And there's so much freedom because you're not putting the pressure on yourself to show up and be all things to all people or be perfect or be infallible.

  Um, and it invites, um, it invites conversation. So for me, part of showing up. So showing up authentically is a really tricky thing. I feel like because there is a trend of, I'll put it in quotes, showing up authentically that has a certain feel or look to it. And I think most, or a lot of people anyway, would associate showing up authentically with certain color schemes or certain fonts, or in other words, there's a, there's a trend.

  In our social media currently that is being called authenticity, but that has a very particular aesthetic. Do you follow me?

  Erika Tebbens: Oh yeah, it's totally. Yeah, I could, I could rant on this for days.

  And

  Meghan Barnhard: for the people who we're doing it. That may be their authentic selves. I'm not saying it's not okay. But I think that then people have a misunderstanding and they go, Oh, okay.

  So what it means to show up authentically is to look a certain way, right? To have a certain skin color and hair color, a certain body type to be using a font to be using rose gold. You know, they're like, that's what authenticity looks like. No, no, no, no, no. Authenticity looks like you showing up how you really are in your zone of genius, as you said, like when you come out and you just are on fire talking about the thing that really lights you up the way you show up and do that, that's showing up authenticity often authentically

  Erika Tebbens: Such a hard word, I know.

  Meghan Barnhard: But, but I think this is such an important conversation because we're really, our minds are kind of sideways and we think authenticity means being thin and blonde and using rose gold and, uh, play what is called Playfair font. Right? Like what does it mean to look authentic online and people would unconsciously think of those things and that's not, there is no set of things of what, um, authenticity is because it's just you, um, So I, yeah, I have, yeah, I was so boxed.

  Erika Tebbens: Oh, me too, which I think is super, um, actually want to do a podcast episode about it, but I think it's super vulnerable. Like put, like you said earlier, like everyone has a message and like, we deserve to get our message out, but. Putting out our real message is super vulnerable. Like being truly deeply authentic, releasing the idea of perfectionism, like all of that.

  Because it opens us up to the fact that somebody could come along and say, Oh, well, you know what, you're not the first person talk about that. Or, um, you have a typo in the third paragraph, or, you know, you, you forgot to mention this or that. You know, like it opens us up to a lot of criticism or people just being like, that's stupid.

  I don't care. And that feels really. Hard. And I think that's where people get. So we get really, like you said, that person that has that blog post, that they're working on forever and they're trying to get it perfect. And therefore, no one is benefiting from it in the world. Uh, we, we stall out because we, we have set this bar so high and we don't want that rejection or the critique or whatever.

  We just are like, no, I'm, you know, I'm still working on it. I'm still working on it.

  Meghan Barnhard: Yeah. So here's my reframe. I think when we decide to show up authentically, we're giving ourselves permission not to be perfect. No, I totally got there's that fear and there's that vulnerability, but if you can do this reframe in your mind where you go, ah, I think it was Denise Duffield Thomas who made this distinction.

  I really appreciate it. Um, where she talks about, instead of showing up to be the expert, you show up to join the conversation. And yes, you have expertise. Yes. You have these skills and you have, you know, you've helped your clients in this way and you've written and you've lived it in all these things. So it's not about, um, Oh, I'm not the expert.

  It's not about, um, taking away credit from yourself, that's not what I mean, but. When you show up and say, well, I'm here to join the conversation and to give my input and to share my, um, my thoughts and my experiences and what I know has helped people. For me, that completely changes it. And I kind of call a call back to my days of being a classroom teacher.

  When I started out as a classroom teacher, I thought I'm the grownup. I have to know everything. And I'm, I'm so embarrassed to tell you that I had many moments where I didn't know something and I thought it wasn't okay to tell the kids, I didn't know. And so I would stall or I, you know, Oh, let's talk about something else.

  You know, distraction tactics and the part where the, the place where I started loving teaching was when I would say that's such a good question. I don't know. How do you think we could find out the answer? And the immediate connection you make with people when you do that is powerful. Now, will there still be people out there who tell you about your typos?

  Yeah, but for them, we're not, our message is not for them. And, um, for anybody who hasn't already read, Bernay Brown's Daring Greatly. I highly recommend it. This idea of like somebody who's not in there in the arena, who's not like also taking a chance we don't need to.

  Yeah.

  We don't have to let those opinions weigh us down.

  Um, but that reframe for me of I'm showing up to be in conversation and to be vulnerable means I don't have to have all the answers. So if somebody goes, in a genuine way. If somebody says I don't understand, or that seems contradictory or something, I go, oh yeah, let's, let's unpack this. You know, I'm using this term to mean this, and maybe you're using it a different way and let's figure out where we can get on the same page.

  Now. I feel like I have full freedom. So when I choose to show up authentically, I feel like the pressure is off.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And that is such a damn good reframe. Uh, and, and I, I love Bernie and I love, I mean that, that Teddy Roosevelt quote and it's, it's one of my favorites, uh, in the whole wide world. And it's sort of how like, and I love that you mentioned Denise, I'm such a raving fan of Denise, and she's such a good example about being in the conversation because.

  She is not the only one talking about money mindset. Like there are so many people and even of the birds are thousands in the world that talk about it. Like I follow several different ones and I will say personally, like, Denise's my favorite. Uh, but that doesn't mean I dislike the other people who I like to follow in that realm because each ads because of who they are intrinsically and their life and their experience and their message, like they are all bringing something to the table that they might all be saying the same thing, but they're all saying it in their own way. And there's something about each person that I resonate with. And aprt of why I like Denise the most is because. Of who she is. Like, it's not even always what she saying. It's like, I like that. She's so real. I like that. When like on social media she will post like, funny stuff about her kids or her family. Like, it doesn't feel manufactured. It's like, yeah, sometimes being a mom is hard and as like a business person, it it's, you know, also challenging.

  And, um, she shares stuff, uh, you know, about her husband and, and like building their new home. And it's just, it's very like, you feel like she's pulling back a curtain and letting you into her life and that she's not doing it because like, somebody told her it will sell more money bootcamps. It's like, because she just wants people to see that you can have real life and you can have money blocks and you can get beyond a lot of them.

  And then new ones still creep up and like, that's okay. And that this is the process. And I love how she also doesn't, she's very clear. She's like very clear boundaries of like, in this group for money bootcamp, like we talk about this stuff, as it relates to money bootcamp, like we're not talking about business.

  We are not talking about marriage. We are not talking about this, that we're talking money, bootcamp cause like that is her lane. Like that is her that is her chunk of the conversation. And uh, and I, I really like. I really look up to that and because she's not out there trying to say trying to be that person, that's like, okay, well, I know I help you with money blocks, but yeah, I guess, you know what, I guess I should like go deeper into money and your partner, like she has a little segment on it, but she's not like spiraling out a whole second course. That's like money in your partner and she's not spiraling out a whole second course. That's like money in your business. She's like I do money bootcam.

  And look at,

  Meghan Barnhard: look at how cool that is because when somebody does what is in integrity with her and is also far less work than like I've got to research all of the things and all the courses. Right. So when somebody shows up and does what's in integrity for her, it feels so integrity to in integrity that people who observe it, that were drawn to it. And the other thing I wanted to highlight from what you said is that okay.

  I think content is really important in part because of the times we live in and there are all of these platforms and they're all of these ways people could find out about you. And so, yes, this is helping for people to actually become your clients and work with you. But I also think content is so important because it's an opportunity.

  To help the people who may never work with us. And if you look at so Denise Duffield-Thomas, as an example, I follow her on Instagram. She is having conversations with people. She'll, we'll post something. Other people will comment and say, Oh my God, I'm so glad you brought this up. My kids are driving me crazy, whatever it is, they will chime in.

  And then there's a little back and forth. And the transformation of people overcoming their money blocks in that scenario is starting well before anybody buys anything. And, and it's building relationships with the people who do go on to buy feel really certain like, yup. You're, you're my person you're and we live, like we live in this time of so much abundance, you know, we can find any service that we need.

  And not only that we can find it. From the person who we really resonate with. Right. Like I don't have to go, well, I'll hire this bookkeeper, but I don't really click with her. Right. I can find exactly the service I need from the person that I really resonate with. And I, I just believe so strongly that putting our content out is a way for people to have that freedom and have that choice to go, Ooh, who do I have that good vibe with?

  You know, who's my person. Um, but it also, we're starting to create transformation far. Like when somebody comments on a Facebook post of mine and says, Oh, I thought I was the only one. Thank you so much for sharing this. My day is made. That person may never go on to buy something for me, that person might not even be, you know, like the kind of client who I generally work with, but that person is starting to get a transformation from what I'm sharing and maybe she will buy for me, or maybe she has a friend who needs the thing I have and it'd be like, Oh, check out Megan. Um, but I'm already creating value. I'm already creating a positive ripple effect outward in the world. I'm already creating a revolution where we get to be kinder and nicer to people and help one another.

  Like there's so much in what you do when you choose to show up and share your authentic message. And I get that. It's scary, but it's like so powerful. This is yeah, it is entirely what I have.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah, it is. I think, I really think we don't give ourselves enough credit and I will say too, like every time that I'm like in an upward, like leveling situation, The same, like Denise says, like it's not a new level, new devil it's new level, old devil.

  And my old devil is like that me being my authentic self will be too much for people. Like I'm too weird. I'm too different if she, whatever. And, um, and I'm in this shift right now when I was starting to freak out about my messaging and, and all of this and all of the trusted people that I go to are like, You know, people are hiring you because you're you cause people can it's.

  I think people, yes, people have all these options and it's just like, I would tell any of my clients, like people have all these options. It's how you put yourself out there in whatever content, bigger, small, or anything that you're putting out in the world. Like that is how people know who you are and then your perfect people.

  We'll resonate with that and then decide like, Oh, I want to hire her or I'm going to refer her to somebody else. So I think should hire her or whatever. Um, or even just keep following along and like listening to podcasts. All of those are fine, but every time I, I go to make a shift. It's that same voice as like, Oh, but this is the time where, who you are, is now going to be a liability.

  And I really have to check myself and be like, no lean into like, not trying to be perfect, be who you really are. All of that, because that is what people resonate with. And in terms of the. Uh, going back again to that blog post that just sits unwritten or the Facebook posts or the Instagram posts or whatever the hell it is.

  Um, I see a lot of times, cause I'm in the she podcasts, uh, Facebook group, which is a great group. Um, people really like getting super wigged out about editing and I'm very clear, like I do not do heavy edits of this podcast because I do not want to, self-sabotage like the value of the content to get it out in the world by deleting every like, and, um, and.

  So when whatever it is that I say, because I could do that to death, like I could either waste my time or a ton of money on an editor. And at the end of the day, like every moment that I waste trying to get it perfect, uh, which I really don't even believe it's like a thing.

  Meghan Barnhard: Yeah.

  Erika Tebbens: Is, is a, is a moment that somebody is not getting the value from the content.

  And I have yet to have a single person actually give me a hard time about any of those things. And even if somebody like didn't come to me and say, Oh, I don't, I don't like that. Or whatever, even if they weren't that bold, maybe they're just saying it to a friend of theirs and they're like, I hate it, her voice is annoying or something bottom line, like I've just released that.

  That's fine. It's somebody else's opinion. And those people aren't my people. And I like, I want people to feel like they are listening to a trusted friend. And you know what, when you're talking to a trusted friend, sometimes there's likes and ums and sows and whatever, and it's just real. And I, I am fully in agreement with you that like, waiting for that thing to be perfect is really hindering like other people from getting your magic, whatever your magic is.

  Um, so I really, I appreciate you saying that. And I think, cause I think sometimes people, people assume these things of like, Oh, if you're putting out content, it means that you're super brave and you're not afraid and you don't care about criticism. And it's like, no, I, I know that that is a reality with every single thing I put out but for the people who respond positively, who are, like you said, like that made my day, or that was exactly what I needed to hear. Thank you so much. Like if I get hung up on my own ego,

  Meghan Barnhard: Yeah.

  Erika Tebbens: Then, then nothing ever goes out into the world. And none of the people that get helped by it end up getting helped, whether they hire me ever or not.

  Like you said, they didn't,

  Meghan Barnhard: They helped us from listening to your podcast. That's how I came to you. I mean, listening to your podcast and going, Oh, these are the things that I needed to hear. And by the way, back to that idea of like, Oh, it's gotta be something really complicated, you know, I'm coming at it, going.

  Oh, that for, you know, I think one of the episodes was your 80 20 episode. And for you, that's probably like day one or level one and I'm going, Oh, it just makes so much sense. And this is what I needed to hear. Um, so I've got another, I've got another reframe for you. Are you ready?

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah.

  Meghan Barnhard: By showing up and letting things be real.

  And not waiting until they're perfect, not only are you getting the content out to the people who it's helping, right. Like me listening to your 80, 20 podcast and going, this is what I needed. Thank goodness. She put it out now. Not five years from now when I don't know, they invented a better microphone or something.

  Um, You are also modeling that you are enough and let's face it, as entrepreneurs, as women and gender expansive as people who in traditional American culture have been getting the message. You're not enough because you're, you don't have like linked mascara that lengthens your eyelashes or whatever bull crap.

  Right. For those of us who grew up and have that message in our genes, having models of people who are walking the talk and showing up and saying, I'm enough, the way I am, your content is giving this subconscious message. Well, beyond anything you're saying, is that making sense? It may be a little bit abstract, but by showing up and putting stuff out, I think we're giving the message.

  I'm enough and you're enough, like you're saying to your audience, it's your time do it now, right. To quote Denise, it's your time and you're ready for the next step. Like yes, the power of, and I have to say, so I just finished listening to you Darien greatly, um, as an audio book and Brenee Brown reads it, and there are parts where she kind of stumbles over a word, or you imagine that if it were a different author, They might say, Oh, let's go back and record rerecord that because you know, you fumbled something, but not Bernie Brown because she's talking about showing up and being vulnerable.

  Right. And I'm like, this is so cool. She's like, Oh yeah. You know, I kind of fumbled that word, but you understand what I'm saying here? And that's far more important than that. I go back and have perfect enunciation, you know, it's like, I. I loved it even more because the format in which she's delivering her message matches the message itself, right?

  So like the mistakes we make the, the not perfect days. Awesome. Because that is helping to reinforce the message that our, you know, we are worthy and it's more important that we're helping people and showing up and shining our lights. Um, then. Trying to police ourselves. Yeah.

  Erika Tebbens: That, that is such a, such a phenomenal reminder.

  And I think that, um, it's it's so before we were, we hopped on to record, I was getting caught up on, um, my favorite murder episodes. Like I love that podcast and I was behind. And, uh, so one thing that I love and it's funny, cause a lot of people say like, they, they hate the podcasts because of it. But is they because they're so conversational.

  Um, and. I, and, and there are so imperfect and like that is really endearing to me, to other people, like it bugs the hell out of them. Like, I'm sure there are people who are super bothered by Bernay Brown or who would listen to that and be like, I can't believe that she just left it like that, you know, but that's okay.

  Like what, I mean, whatever, I'm sorry that you're like fixated on that thing, but, you know, um, but that, that is such a good reminder. And I think, uh, And I love that you mentioned specifically like daring greatly because it's, that book is so much about like being brave. And I think in a nutshell, when you put out content, you, you are being brave.

  Like you are putting yourself out there in a way to say like, Hey, I want to help you with this thing. I hope it helps. And anyone could come along. And be like, you're a big, dumb, dumb idiot. And I hate how you said that. Um, but I think it's worth it to, to just be brave and do it, do it anyways, because yeah.

  Meghan Barnhard: You could come along and say that when I'm being quiet and meek and trying to follow all the rules too, and I've definitely had experiences in life and in business where I'm like, I'll just sit here. I won't make a, stir, I will follow the rules and been. On the bad end of somebody else's ego. Anyway, you know, like th there's no faction in being small and safe and you just guarantee that you're not going to.

  Like live your full life. And there's one more piece I'll add in that maybe will help people. Cause we got into a lot of territory, like it's scary and you're vulnerable and you're putting yourself out there. But here's one more thing that also kind of brings it back to creating content, thinking about, Oh, my ultimate goal is I really do want to help people with whatever business I have.

  And so yes, I do want them to, to buy them. I stopped cause I know it's awesome. So bringing it back to that. If, if you spend a lot of time listening. You don't have to have so many worries about. Um, who am I to say these things and showing up, uh, because you know, for a fact that your, that you're helping people with issues they already have.

  And I know I talked some about that from, uh, in the context of using that as my writing process, like going and listening to two people. But when I work with clients, the very first thing I ask them to do is listen to their audience and this. Is practical. Right. You know, you're like, Oh, how are people really describing the things that they're having challenges with or their struggles are what they really want.

  Um, but it also takes some of the fear away around am I just going to show up and be vulnerable? And there's like, nobody, this resonates with. Because you already know coming in. And what you want to do is kind of, I was going to say doing the math, um, it's not exactly math, but there is a systematic process.

  It's not just random. There's a systematic process that you can go through where you say, okay, who are the people I want to help? What are they showing up saying that they really need and want? And then how can I connect with that? And so not just coming out, being super vulnerable, like I hope there's somebody out there, you know, those people are out there and, you know, you want to work with them.

  Right. That's another key piece. You know, that those are the people you want to attract for your business, and then you're just joining their conversation. So I sometimes liken it to like, imagine you show up at a social event or you're at a backyard, barbecue, and you, you only know the hostess, right? So you have that awkward thing.

  You look around, what you would do is find a group of people that you want to. Have a conversation with right? You're like, Oh, I overheard them talk about this or whatever, you know, there's something that draws you. So you approach them, you listen, and then you find a way to join the conversation that they're already having.

  And that makes it feel so much more comfortable because it's not like I'm just going to show up and be myself and hope somebody comes to me, you're deciding who you want to approach. You're finding a way to approach them. That feels good for both of you. And then you're just like, Hey, I'm here to let's let's chat.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Oh, that, that is, yeah. That is such a real, tangible way of looking at it. Cause I think too, you know, when you go to that backyard, barbecue, like. There are sometimes like, you know, groups of people. We were like, I don't really feel like I have anything valuable to give to their little conversation.

  Cause they're talking about like, I don't know, like their 401k and you're like, I got, I got nothing here. I don't, I don't, I don't deal with my 401k. Like, I don't know. I don't know anything about my 401k. So like, I'll just, you know, politely like bow out of this tiny group and I'll go see what this other tiny group and then totally cool.

  Meghan Barnhard: That's totally cool. And there's so much about this process, that it is experimentation and trial and error. And again, it is systematic, you know, like I, I have actual steps that I give my clients where it's like, go do this and go do this. And it's kind of multiple choice. Like you can choose which one of these activities feels most helpful or least intimidating, but you just have to try.

  Um, before, you know, you have to take action to, to quote another, um, uh, person who totally inspires me, Jenny, she clarity comes from taking action, right? Like you're never going to just sit in your room and think through all the content you need to create and what it's going to sound like in a vacuum, you have to go out, you have to join those groups, see if they're the right groups for you and, and go from there.

  Um, but. That I hope just takes away the fear for people of like, yes, you're going to show up and you're going to be you. And you're going to be your authentic self and it's going to feel a bit vulnerable, but you already know that there are people out there that you can totally help. And so you're just kind of building this bridge.

  You're like, those are the people I know I have the skills to help them. I've got this really cool offer that is going to knock their socks off and I want to tell them about it. And my first step to that is to just start a natural conversation with them and make them feel seen and heard, get some shared vulnerabilities and shared conversation.

  And then we're, you know, we're on a roll.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And, uh, yeah, I mean, I love Jenny too. And I will say like, thinking back to my first blog posts I ever wrote for this business, like I don't ever, I don't do anything with them. Like if people stumble across them, that's fine. I don't share them. I'm not.

  Like, wow. That was my great work, but it was, it was work. I needed to get done to just get that practice of creating and, and everything. And, and I don't take them down. I'm not embarrassed about them or whatever, it's they just live there, but it's not anything that I'm like who this is my core content or whatever, but I'm, I'm glad I did it.

  And it was really a conscientious effort that two years ago. I was going to blog all year. And I th and like, the consistency of that is like, yes, sometimes you get stuff that you're like, Hmm, that's kinda math, but like, it's that process. And in that process, you get other stuff that you're like, wow, I'm really proud of that.

  And that really like resonates with a lot of people. And, um, you know, but like not, not everything is going to. Just knock it out of the park every time.

  Meghan Barnhard: And that's the only way to develop your message and your writing voice. And you talked earlier on in our conversation about some people have this desire to just go, Oh, content.

  I'm just going to farm it out to, you know, a content agency. Well, you're not going to get value out of that unless, you know what you're messaging is, and your voice is so yes, if you're at the point where you've been blogging for a while and creating content for a while, and you have all that stuff dialed in, then it's kind of like you saying, you're going to hand off that work to your VA or you're like, I don't need to be involved in that.

  Right? Because the system and the plan is are, is already established and you need just need somebody to go through the checklist basically. But when you're first starting out, Uh, creating content. And if you're newer in your business or if you've been at it awhile, but you're really feeling uncomfortable with.

  Sales creating content is helping you develop how you talk to your people, which is totally what you need per sales, right? Like this is the, the key piece. Um, so I look at it too, as. There's a lot with writing for our businesses that I look at as this great opportunity. It's as if you're doing a graduate course in this skill that you need, you're writing content that you need for your business, but you're also learning how to write content.

  You're learning how to write blog posts. You're learning your writing process. So you're getting that education for free while you're actually putting content out into the world. So I think that's a win-win um, but every sing you write that's content. Whether people love it. Whether nobody responds, everything you create is helping you learn your voice and your writing style and your writing process and get that dialed in.

  And again, you're never going to sit in a room and think your way to. What is my blogging voice? How do I use the only way to get it is to take action and, um, uh, to start out awkward. I think everybody needs to write awkward blog posts, everybody needs to write blog posts that nobody reads except for your mom.

  Um, because. That's the only pathway to getting better at it and to really finding them the deeper gems where you go, yeah, this is my voice. This is how I want to talk to people.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. So, so good. Oh my gosh. This is like, we, we totally talked longer than I expected, but it's all good. Cause it was just, I think people are gonna.

  Get a ton of value out of this and hopefully feel more prepared and ready and motivated to start writing, um, or keep writing. So I know you have a free mini course and I'm going to have everything for Megan in the show notes as well. But yeah. Talk to us a little bit about how people can get value from you, and then also how.

  Like you work with people.

  Meghan Barnhard: Sure. So the process that I described, that I use myself where I'm going and I'm listening to the questions people have. Um, that's what I outline in my five day free mini course. It's called Content That Connects and it's quick videos and some writing recipes so that you can actually take those steps.

  Um, and so that sounded appealing to you. Like, Oh, I wish I could just answer some of these questions in a natural way. And then. Well, uh, I have a blog post, um, that will help you do that. And, um, that's a process that I just really value from the point of view of being able to create content in my flow so that it is easier and faster for me, but that's also that tends to be the most well responded to content I create.

  When I create in that way, that's when people are like, Oh, thank you. That answered my question because it started that way. It started as answering somebody's question. Um, and then when I work with one-on-one clients, I take them through, you know, a similar thing, but really diving into detail and I start way helping them create what I call, um, a customer language cheat sheet, where it's like, Hey, go out and listen to your people.

  I give them steps for doing that. And we gather the language so that. They really know how their people are talking and they can speak in a way that resonates. So, you know, even though we're writing as our authentic selves, it doesn't mean you're doing it without thought or, um, finesse, I guess, is a good way to, to talk about it.

  Right. So helping people go, Oh, okay, well, those are the words that I know my people understand. So we're not doing that whole expert thing. Right. Um, those are the people I. Where those are the words I know my people understand. So those are the words I can use to create that resonance. And I help them create their, you know, their core message, their home page and, um, about page and, um, uh, walk them through their blogging process so that they can, they learn how to write a, um, you read my mind blog posts.

  Erika Tebbens: Nice. I love it. I love it. And I think this has, uh, This has been a much deeper dive from my other short content episodes. So I hope this was really helpful for people in seeing really how it like the rubber meets the road, as they say, in terms of content marketing and connecting with your ideal people.

  So you can attract the right ones and then more easily convert them. Cause they'll already. Trust you and they'll resonate with you and it will feel, it'll feel like a win for both of you. Uh, and I know, cause I love to hang out on Instagram so people can follow you along there. You do have really, really, really good tips, I will say.

  So. writewitmegan and it's M-E-G-A-N, that is her Instagram handle. And then meganbarnhard.com for the mini course and to reach out and all that other good stuff. Yeah.

  Meghan Barnhard: If you do meganbarnhart.com/connect, it'll take you right to the mini course. So you don't have to go. Where's that a thing I need this them.

  Erika Tebbens: Awesome. Yeah, because I'm sure a lot of people will want to download that. That sounds like a really, a really great free tool for people, especially if they're feeling that overwhelm of the blank page, knowing even where to begin.

  Meghan Barnhard: And then we're both giving everybody permission, right, Erika, to make it easier.

  Right. Like, I feel like this is, we could just say that feeling you have, if it's not hard, it doesn't count. We're both giving you permission. Let go of that.

  Erika Tebbens: Yes.

  Meghan Barnhard: You see an inflow and be the most helpful thing that you put out for your audience.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. This is not AP English class. Nobody's getting graded.

  Just write something, even if it's a helpful Instagram posts. Like. Just do it and, uh, know that you are helping somebody out there. Somebody needs to hear it. And even if only your mom reads it, that doesn't mean you're a failure. You just gotta keep at it. You will get better.

  Meghan Barnhard: Yeah. But you're also everything you write, you're practicing, figuring out your voice.

  Your writing process. Like that's the thing that I love is nothing is wasted. Nothing is lost because every single piece of content I write, I'm like, now I know how to write in my voice for my people a little bit better.

  Erika Tebbens: I think it's the same thing with sales calls. Like, yeah. Yeah. Even if they say no, it's just data collection for you.

  And if you can take some of that, that staying out of it. So thank you for being on the podcast. I really loved having you.

  Meghan Barnhard: By the way. I also have to say, my mom is on my email list because she's a writer. Uh, my mom is working on a book. She's a very talented writer. And so I love it when my mom reads my stuff.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. I, sometimes I forget my mom is too. Cause you know, like that's just such a mom thing. You're like. Oh, I got to see what my kids are up to and, uh, and slim cell forget. And every now and then it's funny, the ones that she re like replies to like the emails to my list. I'm like, Oh yeah, that's my mama's son.

  I should, maybe I should swear less authentic my authentic self squares. So yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much. I, cause I, I know that like, like man content is such, it just, it feels like. Uh, I feel like content and videos feel like the, the worst possible things besides actually like sales conversations.

  You're like

  Meghan Barnhard: Those are the worst things aren't there.

  Erika Tebbens: Yeah. They're like the precursor to, to having that sales conversation. And I feel like people just like despise it and don't understand like, Okay. What, why do I even need to do this? And what is it gonna do for me? Um, but I think that this was the very refreshing, uh, view with a lot of AHASs on why it matters and how you can actually make it work for you and the people that you are trying to serve.

  Yeah, I hope so.

  Meghan Barnhard: I hope we have a lot more thoughtful people sharing. They're sharing their authentic stories because that's certainly what I love to see on my feeds.

  Erika Tebbens: Me too. Me too. Well, awesome.

  Meghan Barnhard: Thank you so much for having me, Erika. This has been so much fun. It's so delightful to talk with you.

  Erika Tebbens: Thanks so much for tuning in to this episode of the, Sell It Sister Podcast.

  If you loved it and you want more, be sure to subscribe so that you never miss an episode and then head on over to sellitsisterhood.com to join my free Facebook community group. And as your mama said, sharing is caring. So if you got a lot of value out of this episode, be sure to share it with your biz besties too.

  Okay. Now get out there and Sell It, Sister.