Ep. 034: Mindfulness and Minimalism in Life & Biz
A former classical musician, Dacy Gillespie has been in love with fashion all her life. After years of cleaning out closets, giving outfit advice, and shopping for friends and family, she decided to start her own personal styling business, mindful closet. Dacy helps her clients listen to what it is they really want to wear and look like, without the influence of their mothers, society, or fashion magazines. She helps her clients strip away all the stuff they feel like they *should* be doing to reveal that what they actually need is very little, allowing them to get off the hamster wheel of mindless consumption.
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Erika Tebbens: Before I get into telling you about our guest on this episode, I wanted to take a moment to tell you why I chose to have this guest on, because I really feel like, uh, you know, it's, it's easy to kind of look at this and look who the person is and be like, okay, well, Like, how does talking to somebody about capsule, wardrobes and mindful, uh, you know, per clothing purchases and all of that?
Like, yeah. How was that going to help me amplify my own business, Erika? Like, is this just going to be an hour wasted of my life? Like, I don't know if I kind of time to, to burn. Right? But why I really wanted to have Dacy on is for several reasons. I think that it is. Important as people who are selling and are asking people to make purchases with them, I think it's important to be mindful of the ways that we spend money as well.
Now, again, this is not, uh, this is not going to be like heavy handed. We're not going to be, um, judging or, or preaching or anything like that. I just think it's really, really, really good in this day and age to be mindful about how and where and why we are spending our own money and I think because at least for myself, I can say that we have so many options now more than ever, but we also have a way to kind of see behind the curtain of those options and really make more, um, meaningful purchases, right?
So, yes, we can all, you know, go into target and we can pick up stuff while, while we're there. I, I still do that as well, but the older I get, I really like to think about, you know, who are the people running this business that I'm giving my money to? And, um, you know, where's it going? And what are they doing? And what is kind of the overall the big picture?
Right? So I that's like part one of it. And if you're not there yet, you know that that's fine too, because maybe you'll get some ideas, some inspiration from this episode. And if not, again, no judgment. The other part is the part that really relates directly to your business is I know that a lot of times it can be really easy to, you know, when you're a solopreneur, when you work out of your home, it can be so easy to just have the messy bun and the pajamas all day long.
Right? And there's nothing wrong with that. I've had plenty of those days, but I would say in the last, maybe six months, I've been tried to be more, again, mindful about getting up, having that morning routine. I don't wake up at 5:00 AM or anything, but just like getting up, having somewhat of a morning routine, getting showered, I don't always like do my hair and makeup, but putting on real clothes because I found that when I do that, I just show up differently at my desk, I really do. And especially like, if I'm feeling good and I'm feeling comfortable and confident in what I have on, I am way more opt to do an Insta Story or a Facebook live, something like that.
Right? I will show up bigger. I will show up more frequently. And when I do that, when I get in front of more people and I say, what I want to say, I get more attraction, right? I get more, uh, client inquiry, inquiries. I get more clients. I, uh, I get good feedback, which then creates this like confidence loop and so on.
So that has been really important. Um, also, you know, like networking, I know there's a lot of introverts and a lot of like, I don't want to leave my house and everything and you don't have to, but in-person networking, running in-person workshops, all of those things, they have been hugely profitable for me, for my business.
And if I was like, you know what? I already am feeling nervous about going. And oh my gosh, I have to put on like real clothes and leave the house. I want to lessen any barriers to any of those things. I want to lessen them as much as possible and one way to do that. And, and I am somebody, if you haven't been following me for awhile, like I am not a very like buttoned up, uh, pantsuit kind of person.
I like to keep it cash, I like to be comfy. But even just like having a pair of jeans that feels great. Having a top that feels cute. Having some shoes that I really love and are cute, but they feel comfortable because now I'm almost 40 and I can't buy those like $20 flats at target anymore. They kill me, but like, I still want to look cute.
Right? I don't want to look frumpy. I want to look put together and, um, but I don't want to spend a lot of, of time or energy thinking about it, right? I just want to grab some stuff that I know is going to kick ass, put it on and head out the door door or show up on my Facebook live and just have one thing that I can switch off in my mind.
Kind of like the Steve jobs, like the jeans and the black turtleneck that he wore every day. So he could focus his brain energy on other more important things. Now I'm not quite that extreme and I don't think we all need to be, but, there really is something to be said about not having to make so many decisions every day, right?
Your, your brain is more important than figuring out what you're going to wear for the hundredth time and an overcrowded closet. Right. You have work to, do you have lives to impact you have, you know, networking events to go to or Instagram stories to, to record, right. So I do think that that like the dressing component of this is important too, and I won't get into it here cause you'll hear Dacey say it, but she I'm just going to say, like, she's not somebody, um, who is into like, we're going to hide your problem areas and stuff.
Like we do talk a little bit about like body positivity in there. Uh, I've done a lot of personal work on this in the last few years. Um, really loving myself more and body positivity and not feeling like fat is a bad word or a bad thing. And, and so, um, I hope, you know, that none of this is coming from a place of like, we need to shrink ourselves away and hide ourselves and hide our problem areas, Dacey and I get into that a little bit.
Um, so this is really about like empowering yourself with what you put on each day and not trying to like shrink away because of, you know, patriarchy and all that everything. So, yeah, and then the, uh, so, so there's all of, all of that heavy kind of heavy stuff, but, um, we, we don't go too deep into it, I just wanted to add that caveat. And the third reason is because she also is very mindful about her work, how many hours she works, that the type of work that she does because of her two young kids. So I think that this is a really good refreshing thing to hear. I think the more that we can actually see, see how other women are running their businesses, what type of business, how they're doing it, like a little bit more behind the scenes.
I think it really helps us. And it normalizes different ways of being successful that we don't always see in the medi, right? It's not always about, oh my gosh, I made six figures in six months. It's not always, Oh my gosh. I went viral. It's not always these big huge flashy things. Right? Sometimes being able to work very part-time doing something that you love that makes you money that allows you to be present for your family, that is really, really amazing and valid as well.
And there is a really cool thing about a, having a mindfulness to the way that you work. It's what I preach with, uh, with all of my clients, right? It's not just about making more money. It's about making money in a way that serves you and your whole life.
Right? So, uh, those were really the three reasons why I was like, I want to talk about this and I want to talk about it with Dacy. So before we dive into all the cool, uh, actual interview part of this, I want to tell you a little bit about Dacy Gillespie herself.
So she's a former classical musician who has been in love with fashion all of her life. After years of cleaning out closets, giving outfit, advice, and shopping for friends and family, she decided to start her own personal styling business called Mindful Closet. Dacy helps her clients listen to what they really want to wear and look like without the influence of their mothers, society or fashion magazines.
She helps her clients strip away all the stuff they feel like they should be doing to reveal that what they actually need is very little, allowing them to get off the hamster wheel of mindless consumption. So if you want to check her out further and I'm sure you will, after this amazing interview, you can find her at mindfulcloset.com or on Instagram @mindfulcloset.
And I can say firsthand that since getting to know her and, uh, having her, help me with my, uh, denim saga, the never ending saga of finding jeans that I love. I can honestly say she helped me bind a couple pairs that I love, and she encouraged me to use a Poshmark. So not only did I save money, but I got to repurpose, somebody's perfectly good jeans that they did not want any more.
And I love them. So she is phenomenal at what she does. She is so insightful about her approach to all of this. And I hope that you love this interview as much as I loved it too.
Hey, and welcome to the, Sell It! Sister podcast. And today's guest is Dacy Gillespie of the Mindful Closet and I am so, so excited to have you. Thank you, Dacy.
Dacy Gillespie: Thanks for having me, Erika. I'm excited too.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. So you have a really cool different background. And so I would really love to know. I think part of why I love working with women so much is that women tend to start these businesses that I like to think of it as like they're accidental entrepreneurs.
They never imagined that they would have the business that they have and that usually is born out of something that they're good at or a passion. So how the heck did you go from classical musician to professional stylist?
Dacy Gillespie: Sure. Yeah. I love that you frame it that way because it's definitely not something I ever imagined doing. And it's definitely something that I was just good at and was a passion of mine. Um, so yeah, I'm another passion of mine when I was a kid was classical music. Um, I started playing, you know, in elementary school and we was something I always got a lot of positive attention for, and so that really. Uh, kind of kept me eager to keep going on that track.
Um, but it's interesting now when I look back, I think it's one of those things, you know, a lot of us are good at things and just because we're good at them doesn't necessarily mean that that's what we should be spending all our time doing. Um, and so I think for me, music is one of those things that I fell into, um, because I was good at it and I stuck with it and, um, yeah, I ended up going to college, getting a music performance degree and I get a master's in music performance as well.
Um, and then played in some orchestras for a few years after that in my twenties. Um, Um, but it was really a field that was very high stress. Um, lots of pressure, lots of competition. Um, and to be quite honest, there wasn't a whole lot of one-on-one personal interact interaction.
Um, there was a lot of like, there's this group of us playing for you out in the hall and, um, Not a lot of one-on-one, um, direct contact with humans. Um, so, you know, for years it didn't feel like the right fit and I kind of just kept trying different things. Um, I ended up working in arts administration for a long time.
Um, but similarly, those jobs were pretty high stress and pretty low pay, and just really wasn't, I just kinda knew that they were not what I felt comfortable doing. Um, although again, I was good at them. Um, and so it was hard to kind of. You know, disconnects the two ideas that, because I was good at something, I should enjoy it.
Um, so anyway, so basically, um, not until my mid thirties, did I really think that I had the, um, courage to try doing something that I didn't have all this experience in. Um, and so I'd been kind of as a young teenager or even, you know, through my teen years early twenties, um, my mom, my sister, friends would come to me for help with their closets and their clothes and their wardrobes and I would clean out people's closets and I would go shopping with them and tell them what to buy, and I would tell them what to wear. Um, and when I started thinking seriously about making a career shift, um, it was really just fear that had kept me from allowing myself to think of that as an option.
Um, because I really just had a ton of, I know, you know, a good friend of ours. Um, Becky Mellenkamp talks about imposter syndrome a lot, but man, I had a lot of it. So anyway, basically I'm in my mid thirties, I finally decided, okay, I'm going to do this as a side project and I started a blog and started woodwork working with friends, um, officially on their wardrobes, and it kind of just took off from there, so that was six years ago.
Erika Tebbens: Wow! That is really cool. And I, yes, imposter syndrome for sure, and I'm just like, I'm guessing that it was one of those things where it sounds like it came a little bit more easily to you and I know that a lot of times, I think, especially for women, when something comes easily for us, we're like, well, how can I transform that into a business? Because it almost seems unfair that we would get to enjoy what we do and that it would be easy and fun.
Dacy Gillespie: Man, that's huge. That's totally huge. And I think the other thing too, is it's hard for us to imagine that if we're good at something, not everyone else's as well, you know that it's not, well, if I'm good at this, it must be just something that everyone knows, you know, and just to realize like, Oh no, there are people who really struggle with this thing that does come easily to me.
Um, and yeah, and then to kind of translate it into, to take that a step further and say, okay, but to, you know, think of the idea of people paying me money to do this, something that comes easily to me. Um, yeah, that was a big leap for me.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And did you have any, uh, any time when you were thinking about making the transition where, uh, and I, and I asked this because this happened to me and I think it happens to a lot women where you were like, well, what, what external thing do I have to get that will prove that I'm capable of having this new title?
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think there's a, another thing that a lot of us rely on rely on, which is that we need some sort of external training or some sort of external certification to say, yes, you are qualified to do this rather than just knowing, having a sense of knowing that that you're good at it.
Um, like you're, you're totally right. It really needs to be validated by someone else beside of us. Um, and yeah, that was hugely, um, uh, a huge hurdle for me to get over. I, luckily, I mean, somewhat, luckily at the time there were really not any training programs for the type of styling that I do. Um, and so it was a lot of people figuring it out on their own.
Like I was, um, you know, but I didn't go to fashion school. I hadn't worked in, I had worked in retail off and on, but I hadn't had a long career in retail. Um, and it was just such a, uh, a drastic shift in fields that, um, I definitely had to struggle with a lot of that, you know, kind of, how am I qualified to be doing that?
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And I, I love what you said about being so close to it that you assume everyone is, is really good at it, because I know for me too, there are things in terms of like selling or business, um, especially product-based selling because my background is more like a traditional retail selling products and things like that.
And there will be things that I tell people just like little tidbits, uh, of, you know, how you can convey something or let somebody know about a promotion you have or what it's like so minimal. And then they try it and they come back and they're like, Oh my gosh, I got, you know, I sold like 20% more, whatever it is, and they are blown away.
And for me I'm like, Oh, that's just something that's second nature and I forget it's that like curse of the expert, like you just forget how sometimes other people don't actually know and that they are like, begging for somebody to come along and solve that problem for them and then I think we do ourselves a disservice by, by thinking like, well, but I shouldn't, I shouldn't like put myself out there.
I shouldn't charge people for this or, you know, at like, I don't know, market myself because, yeah, it's just so easy and people are gonna think that I'm so stupid for. Asking for money for this. But meanwhile, somebody is like, please just help me with this thing that you are so good at.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah. I mean, that's what I, that's what I, you know, it took some experience in some, a couple of years of working with clients, for me to get to that point of realizing like, okay, I have to get this hammered into my head over and over again, but there are people who really hate to go shopping, do not know, you know, what they should wear in the morning, what to put together.
Um, don't know whether they should be keeping certain things or not. And just after having that experience over and over and over, it's a similar, like what you just described they're like, Oh, I don't have to wear that color that I hate, but someone told me I should wear.
And I give them the permission to say, no, you never have to wear that color again. And they're so happy. And, but yeah, it just took me kind of getting out there and doing it to, to realize that like, okay, this really is something that, um, that there, first of all, is a market for, which is great for me. Um, and that other people really struggle with.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And I love, I really do feel that the confidence comes through the doing and it's, I think it's, once you start doing it and you see those wins from clients that you, at least for me, like I realized how foolish I was to ever think I needed to go back and get some other piece of paper to give me that false confidence, uh, because yeah, I was really like in terms of this business, I really was looking at grad school and like grad certificate programs.
And then I was like, I've literally already been running businesses, successful businesses, like why would I need to spend all of this money and put in two years of my time, for somebody else to tell me what I already know to be true; like I just need to get out of my own way.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah. Yeah. And except that your experience is valuable, you know?
Erika Tebbens: Yeah.
Dacy Gillespie: That it's worth, you know, as much as that that's been a hard switch for me is to acknowledge that experience can be as valuable as you know, traditional learning.
Erika Tebbens: Yes.
Dacy Gillespie: So that's been, that's been helpful for me to just kind of get used to the idea of.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, very much. And I think it's a cultural thing, at least in America is, uh, very much that external, somebody told me that I was allowed to do this thing.
So now I can do this thing. So. It seems like that trend is changing at least in the online business world, which is good, it makes me happy.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Erika Tebbens: So when you were younger, I know, and I, and I want to get into a bit on, uh, minimal wardrobes and conscious consumerism when you were getting excited about fashion when you were younger, was it always in the way that you are now? Or was it more how people think about when we think of like people who are into fashion?
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah, definitely. I mean, I was, I was that weird little girl who was checking out Vogue magazine from the library when I was like eight years old and, um, just read fashion magazines. Um, religiously, as soon as I remember vividly in the early two thousands, when they started putting fashion shows online, that was like a huge thing for me cause it could start to see the looks from, you know, Paris fashion week or Milan fashion week, um, as they were coming out.
Um, so there was like a kind of a democratization of fashion at that time, it was really exciting. Um, but yeah, I was really interested in. Kind of that world where you're told here's what's in fashion, here's, what's trendy, here's what you're going to buy this season.
Um, and I did a lot of that. Um, I didn't have a ton of money, but I was constantly, you know, checking out sale racks and, um, just looking for ways to find things, um, you know, second hand. Um, but I was consuming a lot and that really, um, you know, in a way I had to go through that cycle to get to the point where I'm at now, which is that I, I feel confident in my style.
I know what I like, I don't need to be tempted by the newest, latest trend, but it took some experimentation. Um, to get there. Um, and I really had a feeling just in my personal style that I needed because I was so into fashion. I needed to make sure everyone knew that by dressing in a way that was like pushing the boundary and going as far out of my comfort zone as I could.
Um, and just as I've gotten older, I think this is true for a lot of things it certainly applies for my businesses as well, but you know, I've stopped pushing myself out of my comfort zone so much and just started to relax into the place where I feel good and I feel comfortable and for me, that has ended up being very simple, very neutral clothing.
Um, and no, one's gonna look at me and say, Oh, that's, that's a fashionista, she's wearing the latest designer, everything, but I feel good in my skin.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I love that. Cause I think, uh, I think that is something I know in the last probably only couple years, uh, I used to be somebody who, I mean, I worked for Calvin Klein for years and every week we would get in our new shipments and I would dig through and I, I was buying every week, uh, and I was not even like a super, super fashionista.
Like I wasn't going after all the trends or anything, but it was just like this, this thing of like the, I loved like the newness of like, like I have never in my life been able to understand when somebody is like, why have all this stuff in my closet with the tags on it?
Because it would literally be like, I can't even buy stuff that's like, if it's the middle of summer, like I can't purchase a sweater because I have to wear it immediately, like, I'm so excited about the newness of it. Um, but, and I, and I always thought, uh, like I was like, I don't, I don't have a problem because I was really, really good about every three to six months I would do a closet purge.
So my closet was never out of hand. Uh, and so, like, I kind of view it as like the person who's like, well, you know, I don't have a problem with alcohol, like I only drink one bottle of wine a night and not like three, so I'm, I'm doing okay. And then you realize like maybe one bottle is not a great amount to have every single night.
I think it was like that like, I was really justifying like, well, I'm getting a lot of my stuff at a discount or I'm getting it at the fast fashion stores or I love, um, second hand clothing stores. I've been shopping, like used clothing stores since high school and so, yeah, it was a lot of this like justification, but every time I would do that closet purge, I'm like, this is freaking ridiculous.
Like, how is it possible that every six months I can get rid of this much stuff? And then I was, I got like a little bit curious about, could I minimize it? And I am such an eclectic person. I was like, I don't think I'm actually ever going to be able to, but I, I have, and it's, it's super liberating. So I want you to talk more about that and how to do that.
But I will say like, I feel like I am the poster child for this, if this could work for me, it can work for anyone because, um, I, I will say, like, I kind of have like a wacky funky style and so, uh, it, it was kind of like important for me to have all of these different pieces. Like, I I'm very much like, do you remember like Blossom or Clarissa?
Dacy Gillespie: Oh my god! I love Blossom!
Erika Tebbens: Like that is my personal style. Like if I can have like a t-shirt and then a button down and then a vest with a Namel pins and then the pants and the hat, like...
Dacy Gillespie: …and the hat
Erika Tebbens: The hat, everything like that is just very much me. It's like that like more is, you know, funkier and wackier like the better. Um, but then it just, I don't know, it started to feel too, uh, restrictive and I'm somebody who likes to travel more and kind of as like a way to be like, if you want to travel more and not pack a lot, you have to do some, you have to like compromise with yourself in some way.
And I feel like. Now I kick acid it and it's life changing, but that was, that took decades for me to get to this point.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah and I think you just hit on the biggest misconceptions that people have of that minimalism is that if you are a minimalist or you want to have the minimalist wardrobe, it means that your style has to be, uh, you know, like, uh, a black box, like, like you can only wear white or you can only wear black and everything just has to be super, um, strict and boring.
Um, and, and definitely you can have a really eclectic style. Um, and for me, I'll just, I'll just. Kind of lean into the definition that I have in minimalism, which is that you love and use everything that you own. So basically, um, what you and I were both doing when we were going through, cause I was doing the exact same thing.
I was going through my closet every few months. And for me it just became about, this is my time and energy that I'm spending, I'm bringing the stuff into my home, trying to make it work, you know, like trying on different outfits, multiple ways, um, wearing it once, feeling uncomfortable, bringing it back into my closet two months later saying I'm going to clean everything out.
I feel overwhelmed, cleaning it out and donating it again. And so for me, it was this, this process that was constantly kind of sucking energy out. Um, and I realized like, well, what if I just didn't buy the stuff that I was feeling uncomfortable in wouldn't if I just didn't say, I don't have to try everything that's out there.
Um, and so just to kind of cut out that part of the cycle, um, and it's, you know, it's, it's easy to say, and it's not easy to do, but it's just, uh, I mean, my business is called Mindful Closet and that's really because I want to start being intentional and thoughtful about things that I brought into my closet.
Um, so yeah, I mean, I think it can save so much energy. Um, when we stop kind of thinking that there are all these things out there that we should be wearing or should be doing. Um, and you can just kind of, if you can let go of a lot of those and you can save energy, you can save yourself that, that hassle.
Um, and then obviously you can save money. So not only are you going to pack more lightly for travel, but you'll have more money left for travel because you won't be spending it on all the clothes.
Erika Tebbens: Yes, exactly. And I think too, uh, I like, I love how you talk about it was it like takes up your, your time and your energy.
And, and I know for me, it used to be, you know, back when my, when my son was little, my husband was deployed, so I was solo parenting and one of my days off a week, he'd go to the sitter for part of the day. So I could clean the whole house and run errands and everything and part of my escape was going to not the mall that I worked at, but the other mall nearby and just like getting lost in the racks and like that, that like rush of like, Ooh, it's something new and fun that I'm going to wear.
And like you said, like not, not paying too much attention to do I love this? Like I really, when I buy clothes now I am like, do I love this? Like, not just, is this okay? Yeah, but do I absolutely love it? Because even if there's a little thing that I'm like, mm, like I love it all. Except for this little thing here.
It's out and, and there are some styles that I am like, Oh gosh, they look so cute. Like the, like an empire waist dress or whatever, like I want, or like, um, some of the like drop-waisted. I know recently that's been really popular and I've just had to be like, it's just not for my body. Like it it's so great that other people can rock it.
It does not look good on me. I feel very awkward if I'm wearing something like that. So, I don't like just being comfortable with the silhouettes that work for me, I feel like even with online shopping, I can just click to filter and be like, no, these are the categories that I need to shop in because I know they look great on my body.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah. I have a couple of responses to that one for sure is, um, you know, being able to appreciate things for other people or appreciate them for what they are without you needing to own them and bring them home. So I actually was just doing an online style workshop over the weekend. And one of the things that we talked about a lot was that you can see things and you can appreciate them, like their art in a museum, you can say, Oh my God, that is such a cool, for instance, I might see something that you would like to wear Erika, and I would be like, Oh my God, that's such a cool, funky print. That's crazy out there. Like, love it. I know I'm never going to wear it.
I can appreciate it and leave it right where it is. I don't need to buy it and own it and take it home. Um, so that's one aspect and then I just have to, um, you brought up body types and just kind of what works for your body.
And I have to jump on that because that's kind of one of my big, um, so boxes these days is that, um, that I do think you need to feel good in what you're wearing, but at the same time, I think we're focused so much on things being flattering or things. Um, basically I, I believe that if you're wearing clothes that you love the look of and that you feel good, and then you feel yourself in, you're going to look great and you're going to look confident and that's going to shine out of you.
Um, because I really, I have to fight back against a lot of my clients when they only want to where are things that are flattering and that may not be what really, you know, illustrates their personal style in the best way. Um, and it's just kind of this idea of like, thinking, always thinking about what's flattering when the idea of flattering is to appear smaller, right?
It's like, what, how can I appear as small as possible? Um, and I just want to, I'm always just trying to push back against that idea and, and remind people, women that we deserve to take up the amount of space that we take up in the world, um, that there's no need for us to try and disappear or appear as small as possible.
Um, and so when I work with clients, a lot of the times, um, that's what everyone's to talk about first. And I'm like, let's figure out who you are and what you want to wear first, and then we can figure out how to make that work for you in the sizes that you are and that kind of thing. Um, so that is just my little soap box that I always want to try and get out there that, um, that, you know, we want to just focus on what makes us feel good and we'll worry less so about being small.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. I'm, I'm so glad that that is your ethos because I, I also am somebody who, uh, it's funny, cause I am in dress size twice as big as I was back when I was working at Calvin Klein when I was buying all those clothes and uh, and I definitely have a lot more dressing confidence now I would say than I did back then.
Uh, and I think that I like. I really, really don't love it when I see. Other people who do similar to what you do, who, who are always talking about like hiding your problem areas. I'm like, no, we don't have problem areas, you know? Like, like we might in our mind think that we do, but it's just because of, you know, culture and like, you know, consumerism and the patriarchy and like whatever, all these other things.
Um, but yeah, I'm very much like, you know, fat chicks, if you want to wear like crap, and I put myself in this category too, like, like put on a crop top, like show your, you know, show your belly, like rocket out. Uh, my friend Nikki does this really cool, she does like a, queen-size swap two times a year, which I love.
And I'm like, yeah, like it's, it's really cool to see like, women of size, like in mini skirts and crop tops and, or like, whatever, it just rocking it and looking so good and so confident. Um, and so I really love that. And I, thankfully I feel like the tide is turning now because we, with social media, we do get a lot of body positivity perspectives from different people in different accounts.
So that does make me hopeful and optimistic, but, uh, but yeah, I definitely think like really embracing and being like, yeah, I don't have to just try to minimize and shrink everything. Like, if I want to wear something, then I'm gonna wear it and I'm going to rock the hell out of.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah. Yeah. And it's hard, it's definitely hard as women and as mothers, as we both are. Um, because like you said, like we're different, we're different bodies than we were 20 years ago. And this is another one of those things where, you know, I do run into a lot of people who, who are expending so much energy on, on wishing that other body back and that, that body was from a time before you had children, it was before you've had the life experience that you've had.
And again, it's not easy, but if we can let go of some of that energy of wanting that and accept where we are, which is still usually a really amazing place to be. Um, again, we just, we just have more energy for things that we might care a little bit more about or, or might feel more important in the, in the long run.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, exactly. Uh, that's, i, I just really, I appreciate your, your perspective on that. Cause I feel it gets, it's really refreshing to hear somebody in the industry not, uh, like buy into the idea of like hiding problem areas and, and, and all of that. So, yeah, I love that. So what else? So obviously besides like time and energy and money, what has having a Mindful Closet?
Like how, how else has it transformed your life or like when you teach it to your clients and they start embracing it, what's the feedback that you get from them?
Dacy Gillespie: I think there's just an immediate sense of freedom. I mean, I usually do two or three sessions with each client. One-on-one the first session is where we do kind of do the closet cleanse and get all that stuff out.
Um, and, you know, and it's just amazing. Cause it's one of those things, again, like we're talking about people. Afterwards, they're like, I, I should have been able to do that on my own, but I just really couldn't like, I just really needed someone there to help me to, you know, kind of give me permission to let all this stuff go.
Um, and then the second session I do with people is shopping. And so that's getting new stuff to kind of fill the holes. But the amazing thing is that it almost always get the most feedback, even though we haven't done the shopping trip after the first session, people say, I already feel like I have so many more options.
Like I already feel like I can breathe easier, I already feel like it's easier to get dressed because basically what we do is we just clear out all those things that have some little saying about them, like you were saying before, like if there's one thing, one deal breaker with an item of clothing, a lot of us have, cause it's full of items that we just don't want to wear for one little reason like that or another.
And we keep telling ourselves, I'll make it work. I'll make it work. I spent money on that. I don't want to get rid of it. It's really cute, you know, but I bought the wrong size or, you know, I really love it, but I have to wear a tank top underneath it because it's sheer and I just really hate wearing two layers or I love it, but the fabric is itchy and so every time I wear it, I just want to yank it off.
So, you know, if we can get rid of all those things in our closet and, and end up with just the things that we know, we can open the doors, grab something out and be comfortable in for the day and feel like ourselves. Um, it just allows so much more freedom and, and just, um, space. I dunno. Yeah.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Yeah. I think, uh, I feel like I would say the same for me, especially in terms of when I travel now, I used to chronically overpack, I would super stress out, it would take me forever. And, uh, and now it's like, effortless. Like I could, uh, we went to Stockholm in September for a week and we were not going to be able to do any laundry.
And in the past that would have, it would have been so hard for me to be able to put stuff together that would work for a whole week, like I would have packed a ton more stuff, but I literally, my, my wardrobe now is like, is so slim. And I, and I would also say like, I don't feel like it's boring and, and I have like a, um, little case of accessories.
So I just laid out all of my stuff, like I packed it up, I put in my accessories and I was like, I feel great. Like an even if the weather was going to be a little different one day, like I could have worn, you know, a skirt instead of pants or whatever the case and that just felt so great, especially as a mom who, like, I feel like most of my mom friends, no matter how busy we are with our businesses or whatever, like.
If the family's going on vacation, you're the one stuck packing for everyone. So for it to just be one less thing that I had to really agonize over that was really wonderful. That that felt like freedom.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah. I, and, and, and I love, I love that I do a lot of, I have a, like an email sequence that helps people through kind of a minimalist packing process.
And basically we just, there are all these things that we think we should be doing. And I just quickly, like what probably what you did for that trip is like you bring things, a lot of people try and buy new things for a trip, cause they're like, Oh, I don't have the right thing. So they bring new things, the new things don't work.
Then they feel like I really don't have what I needed. Um, and then, you know, another thing is like you bring simple things and then you bring accessories to kind of switch it up. You know, you can be wearing like great jeans and a t-shirt and throw on a great pair of boots at night. And you know, your pair of like, casual tennis shoes during the day and just have a totally different looks or a scarf or earrings.
Um, so yeah, I mean, keeping it really simple, I think makes it so much easier and you don't have to it's, you know, we put all this pressure on ourselves as well to, I call it like to be Pinterest perfect. Like you can just wear a simple outfit and go out in the world and not feel like you have to be, you know, a magazine page.
Um, and I think a lot of women put. So much pressure on themselves when they're getting dressed that like this has to be the cutest trendiest, newest outfit ever. And you know, again, it's like, Let's let some of that pressure go. Um, but yeah, it definitely was shopping. I mean, with traveling, sorry. I think it's great to have that experience while you're traveling and then you can kind of come home and be like, well, I did so well while I was traveling.
I just, you know, what do I really need the rest of this stuff for, you know, and just kind of, it's a good experience to try packing lightly and then kind of realized like, okay, I can live with that. I, you know, I didn't need all those extra things that I thought I needed. Um, cause that's really the fear of a lot of people is that they'll have some occasion come up where they don't have the right thing.
And so they're holding on to all of these things for, you know, what, what is, you know, just in case stuff. Um, and 99% of the time, those what ifs don't occur. And if they did, quite honestly, we live in such a land of abundance that you can get whatever you need whenever you need it.
Like in the 1% chance when you would need something, um, you would be able to get it. You know, you don't have to feel that sense of scarcity. It's, it's we have everything we need.
Erika Tebbens: Yes, that's, that's very, very true. Uh, the only thing I, I generally hang on to now is like, Uh, Halloween costumes. I am a huge Halloween fan.
Uh, I will say not for like my child, like for me, like my Halloween costumes, because I also am somebody who loves to dress for a theme. So if somebody had like a theme party, I want to be able to have like, you know, stuff to dress the theme, but that is also just me. I feel that's a very unique.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah. And that's what, again, like all my clients are always scared that I'm going to come in and take away things that they love.
And that's the whole point again, that's kind of like the point of being a minimalist is you keep these things that you love and will use. And so even if someone has something that they wear once a year or ugly Christmas sweater, or their 4th of July, you know, flag shirt or whatever it is, if they tell me, I really love wearing that once a year, I'm not going to take it away.
I mean, I don't take anything away, but like, you know, those are things that, that make you happy that there's no rule that says if you don't wear it X amount of times, or you must have X number of things in your closet and you know, all those things are those, those are more shoulds, more expectations that are, that are put on us and you just, you need what you want to have.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And I think, um, I think I'm glad that you mentioned this specific number, cause I think what, initially told me like, well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna fail at this because I'm very much like an obliger is I was like, well, I don't think I can get it to 27. So if I can't get it to 27 pieces, then I, that means I'm a failure.
So I guess I just shouldn't even do it. And then like, I literally couldn't even tell you how many pieces of my standard wardrobe that I own, but like, it feels right. I don't know. It just, it feels right.
Dacy Gillespie: And if you, if you're not, if you're not pouring through your closet every morning, passing by thing, after thing, after thing that you don't want to wear, you're fine.
You're in a good spot. You know what I mean? But it is, there are so many people I've come to know who just literally, you know, pass hanger by hanger, by hanger of things that they're like, I don't want to wear that. I don't want to wear that. I don't feel good in that. I don't feel good in that. And those are the things that we don't need to hold onto.
You know, there's nothing that says we need to hold on to a white button down. If that's on Tim Gunn's list of 10 items, every woman needs to have, but you feel terrible in one, you don't need it. You know, you can let it go. I don't own a white button down.
Erika Tebbens: I, um, I actually realized that the other day, I don't own a single piece of white clothing.
Cause I'm so messy. Like now I don't even own a single white t-shirt like. Nope. I'm and I'm perfectly okay with that light gray, sure. Not white because there will be coffee down the front of it and two seconds I'm yeah. So I love, I love like this. Um, I love the whole notion of just, uh, being more intentional.
I feel like the older I get, I, the mindfulness and intention in everything and every aspect of my life, parenting being, you know, a spouse like living in the world. I feel like I want to, I gravitate towards, um, trying to be more like mindful of everything I do and do everything with intention. I'm very much that way in my business too.
So I love that you also are like an intentional minimalist in your business. So I want you to talk a bit about that because I think especially again, for women, since it's mostly women who I work with and who listen to this podcast, we, we always have just like whether it's fashion or starting a business or growing a business, these external like markers that we feel like I have to be achieving this or. Something is wrong with me or I'm not working hard enough, or I must not want it bad enough for whatever.
Like we, we look at these other people and we're like, well, if I'm not Amy Porterfield in this, then should I just quit? Uh, cause I obviously suck.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah. I mean, believe me, I feel all those same things too, and it's really hard to push back against those, um, the whole, you know, hustle mentality and, you know, um, even for moms, especially like anytime your kid is sleeping, you should be working.
Like all those kind of mentalities have been really hard for me to push against, but I haven't really had a choice just because I know what I'm capable of doing, and I'm not capable of pulling all nighters. I'm not capable of working till midnight when I know my kid's going to be up at 2:00 AM.
Um, I'm just an unhappy person if I do that. Um, so I've just kind of allowed my business to, to land within the boundaries of what, you know is healthy for me. Um, and so for me, I've had, I have a five-year-old and a one-year-old and so I've had young kids at home for, you know, five years. And so I work a few days a week and I don't really do stuff late at night or during nap times.
Like that's my time when I need to. Um, rejuvenate myself, um, so that I do have energy for the kids and the work that comes the next day. So I really have kept things small. Um, I'm like truly a solopreneur. I, I, you know, I work with clients one-on-one, I do have an online course and I've outsourced a few things here and there, but for the most part, I just kind of, I just do it myself.
And, um, for me that has worked just because I, again, it's less pieces to manage, it's less moving parts. Um, and for my, the season of my life that I'm in right now, that as cheesy as that phrase is it's, what's working for me. Um, but it is really hard to resist when you see, you know, um, offers and, and things about, you know, I don't make six figures.
I don't have a six figure business, but what I do have is I have time in the morning where I can sit with my kids and play with them before they go to school or the babysitter without feeling stressed, or I have time to exercise or cook dinner, um, without feeling like everything is kind of jammed in, um, impact in too tightly.
So I, I just really, when I started this business, it was truly as much about my love for fashion as it was about having a life with white space in it, like just a space where there's nothing scheduled. Where I don't have to feel like I'm rushing from thing to thing, because I did that for my whole working life before this.
So I'm just ready to have this kind of phase where I, um, I do work that I love, but I, but I don't do it 24/7.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. I, I really appreciate that. Cause I, I imagine from just, uh, only a couple of friends, I know who are also classically trained musicians. Like they can grind some practice out, like in a way that I I'm like that is impressive because I could not, I don't think I could do the same thing over and over and over for like eight hours just really, um, to master it at that level.
Uh, but I, yeah, I think that it's really, really, really important too, like you said, like, yeah, I know the phrase tends to get overused, but like the season that year that you're in, because I have also been somebody who has hustled and, uh, and it led to burnout. And I'm very conscientious now that my sanity and everything is, it takes priority over a dollar amount any day.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely where I am. And there's definitely, I mean, I would love for my business to continue to grow. I mean, I'd love for it to be in a place when both my kids are in school. Full-time that I'm, that I'm busy with work, um, to continue being busy with work. But, but I also, yeah, the, the mental health aspect of it, and I'm very open about this.
I, I have anxiety and depression and you know, that just takes a little, it can spiral out of control when you're super stressed out and super busy and so for me, it's more important to kind of have, um, just that white space is what I need to say, kind of healthy and manage everything. I mean, having two little kids is, as you know, it's just, it's, it's a crazy craziness in itself. Um, so, so having the, the entrepreneurship on top of that is a lot, um, and it is just so interesting what you said about, you know, in classical musicians I'm practicing because that, yeah, that was exactly my life.
And the funny thing about it is that there was always more practice to be done, nothing was ever perfect, perfect. You could continue to practice. You could practice 12 hours a day, you know? Um, and I do have to divorce myself from that a little bit with entrepreneurship, because it does feel that way as well. It does feel like, well, you can always be working on your business, you could always be doing more.
Um, so I'm trying right now to choose specific things to be in touch about in my business, that will bring me more clients, um, and to work on those. Um, but it's hard. I mean, I get, I get sleep all the time, so.
Erika Tebbens: I know it's, it's so easy to do. And I think I know one thing. That is always really important to me in the way that I work with people as well is not just, um, growth for the sake of growth, but growth within a, within honoring like time, like how do you want your life to look? How do you, do you want to take every Friday off? Do you want to only work four hours a day? Like, how can we get you to where you want to be and allow for that white space or allow for, you know, if you only have childcare three days a week, like, great, how can we maximize that?
Because I feel like, and this is just a lot of living and learning the hard way is you have to honor where you are and, uh, and like how you are as a human in order to have sustainable success, because like you can hustle and grind and have short term success and then crash and burn hard. But I would rather see people, maybe it means the growth is a little slower, but they can maintain it over time and it feels doable. Um, that is really important to me.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah. I, I, I agree so much with everything you just said. I mean, definitely. Yeah. And, and what's funny too, is like a lot of times you think about it, what are you hustling so hard for? Because sometimes you're hustling to get to the point where you have white space in your life.
Like sometimes you're hustling so hard so that you can take Fridays off, whereas. Um, I'm just kind of choosing to do that now, you know, I'm choosing to work three days a week and, um, and I'm choosing to have white space in my life now because you're right, like if I didn't do that, it, it would crash and burn.
Um, and I've again, through experience. I've learned that. And so, um, yeah, it's a constant rebalancing just because I, yeah, the slow and steady thing is what I'm doing, but I don't always love that I, sometimes I want, that'd be growing faster and more, and I see other people doing it and it's hard to remember, okay, I have, you know, 18 hours a week that I can work in and what can I accomplish in that time?
I have to set goals based on that amount of time, not based on just like a pie in the sky kind of goal. Like I have to really like be realistic about the time that I have to work on those goals. So that's something I'm constantly coming to terms with.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And I think it's just, it's always such a juggle, I think for women, for moms, especially, it's like, there's never, there's never like a good...
Dacy Gillespie: ...there's never a balance that's achieved constantly be constantly be readjusting, but yeah, I don't think there's ever a perfect balance.
Erika Tebbens: Exactly, so I know that we, like, I definitely want to talk about the ways that you can help people and they can get, um, free info or info on your course or, uh, consult with you.
But one last question, I sort of tie the two together. So one thing I, so I sort of felt like I got my wardrobe under control and then I felt like more so this year, then, like last year, I have tried to, when it's a work day for me. I might not always like fully do my makeup, whatever, but like I get up, I will do my morning routine, I shower and I put on proper clothes and I swear it makes me just show up differently and I'm curious if you're the same.
Dacy Gillespie: Oh, absolutely, a hundred percent. Yeah. I mean, there are all days, there are days when we all want to just stay in our yoga pants and that's totally fine. Um, but yet, I definitely notice a change in myself and, and people that I work with when you put on something again, that feels good and feels like you, it doesn't need to be uncomfortably, uptight, you know, or uncomfortable business-like, but something that feels good and feels like you, um, Yeah.
I noticed a huge difference when I do that and, and it it's worth the effort for sure. And again, if you can kind of minimize what you have, have like a great core go-to set of clothes, then it's not a big deal to do that,, it takes two minutes to grab something that you already you've already vetted it.
You, it's already passed the bar in by being in your closet. You know, you love it and you feel great in it. So, um, it's definitely worth the effort.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. Like my, uh, for me, it's usually like, uh, American giant pants because they feel like leggings, but they look like actual pants and then like a plain t-shirt and like, uh, you know, in the cooler months, like a cardigan, like that's what I'm wearing today, but I, yeah.
I feel like I'm like, all right. I feel more like awake. I feel like, I don't know. It just, it motivates me. And it also, um, I don't, I don't ever really worry too much about doing Instagram stories without makeup on or whatever, kinda gotten over that, but like, uh, I just, I feel more compelled to like show up and, and treat my business, how I need to treat my business when I'm not sitting here and gross smelly pajamas that I just spent eight hours in, so.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah. Yeah. It really, it goes, I mean, it really, what you're wearing can affect how you feel and it goes both ways. You know, you can wear something that feels uncomfortable and not like you and feel just out of sorts all the time, you know, or, or you can wear something that's comfortable. I mean, I've no problem with leggings, you know, all the time.
Um, but you know, you have to add those little things that make it feel like you, you have to add like, like, like, uh, like no one can see you, but you're wearing a super cool cardigan and great glasses and you got it.
Yeah. It's all you. So there's some part of your personality that's that's showing through there. That's so.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, and I, I like the point about if you're about not being, um, uncomfortable either, like I did, uh, I was not too long ago. Um, speaking at a retreat and at first I was like, Oh, you know, I'm gonna be speaking. And I, like my gosh, am I going to have to, you know, blazer it out?
Like what, which I actually don't mind blazers, but I was like, you know, am I going to have to look...
Dacy Gillespie: ...corporate
Erika Tebbens: ...full on corporate? And then I was like, no, and, and I'm just not going to, like, if I'm going to be talking for 30 minutes straight and showing up and giving good energy, like, I just need to be me and mean was like a sneaker, like flat, like van styles, sneakers, and like a skater skirt with pockets and this like big statement necklace that was super colorful and like, And I loved it.
Like I felt great and I felt like I looked cute and I, but if I had, if I had been like, I should look corporate the whole time, I would have been like, like, I feel like I'm, I don't know, just...
Dacy Gillespie: ...like not your own skin.
Erika Tebbens: Right. Like I just would, I would not have been me. And so, uh, so yeah, I appreciate that. Like, not. Yeah, not going with the shoulds, not being afraid to, to wear what you love and show up how you want to show up.
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah, absolutely.
Erika Tebbens: Awesome so how can people get your help? Because I totally see the merit in what you do, even for people who work from home and don't have to go out or have like face to face client meetings. I still think that it's important. So how can people learn more about you?
Dacy Gillespie: Um, really everything you need is on my website at mindfulcloset.com., There are some banners there with like a capsule wardrobe worksheet you can get so you can create like a small little mini wardrobe for yourself to try that out. And then I'm always, I love connecting on Instagram. I'm on Instagram @mindfulcloset as well.
Erika Tebbens: Awesome. Yeah. And you, you post all sorts of really cool stuff on your, on your Instagram. And, and I know you've been, I know I sent you a question about jeans the other night and...
Dacy Gillespie: …yes
Erika Tebbens: …so
Dacy Gillespie: …and we’re working on it
Erika Tebbens: Oh my gosh. I just have to say, um, but what I will say, like, as, as like a shout out to you, like, it was great. Like I sent you a question you, and you were like, okay, tell me this, this, this, and like, really getting to the bottom of it, which I really appreciate your time, like being super helpful like that.
Um, but I swear, like I have never met a woman who's like, Oh, yeah, jeans. It's a non-issue and I'm like, how could we all be so different? And there's like, there's a trillion brands of jeans and it's still so hard. Like it, we're almost at 2020. Why is this not been resolved yet?
Dacy Gillespie: It's a really great question. We could talk about standardizing sizing for all the time. It's craziness out there. Um, yeah, I mean, you know, take your own measurements, use your measurements to, to shop online.
Um, and to be perfectly honest, the expectation is real that you have to spend some time and some effort finding the pairs that are good cause what happens is usually people shop for a little while, then they get exhausted and they give up and they end up with a mediocre pair that they don't feel great about.
And honestly, that's where I usually come in because I can come in and do the shopping for you and save you some of that like hassle. Um, so yeah, that, that's what can be helpful.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. And I will say as like, uh, as an aside to that is also the older I get, the more I'm like, uh, I don't have to DIY everything myself, like, like stepping into my own expertise.
I'm like, how can I leverage other expert's knowledge and skill and experience, like, how can I leverage what they know to just make my life easier? So like, If I can just reach out and be like, Hey, can I just pay you? And you helped me, like, instead of me trying on 50 different brands of jeans, Can you just help me narrow it down to a few brands, then I can go shop online, then I can order a bunch and return what doesn't work like that is just, I am so here for that.
Cause I no longer, it is no longer fun for me to spend those hours wandering the stores like it used to be. Now I'm like, I just want the problem solved so I can go on living, right?
Dacy Gillespie: Yeah. Just outsource it. Or like you mentioned being an obliger, I'm an obliger as well. And for a lot of people, I think that's where professions like mine come in. Like it's like having a personal trainer or something. Of course we can all work out on our own, but showing up for someone else and having someone show up for you to have someone help you along the way is sometimes just what some of us need and it can be really helpful. Yeah.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah, I totally agree. Awesome. Well, thank you. Thank you so much for being here. I was so glad that you reached out to me. I think that, um, there are so many other facets. Like, I, I know the, like, you know, teach me how to make more money and all that stuff. Like I know that that's like the sexier side of what people want to learn, but for people who are really in it for like the long haul, I feel like there are all these other components that come into play too and like your confidence level and how you show up.
Or if you do have to go to that networking event, let's say like, I know a lot of people hate networking events, but like, If you finally get the courage where you're like, I'm going to go to the networking event.
I feel like knowing that you are going to look and feel like a million bucks. Yes. You sell, so might be anxious to talk to strangers or whatever, but you're at least like removing one huge roadblock.
Dacy Gillespie: That's what I always feel like too is it's like, what, what can I, can I take away one piece of stress from your day?
You know what I mean? Like cause how many women do, you know, get stressed about what to put on every day? I mean all the time, what should I wear? So if I can help people just take away that one piece of stress, then, then they have that energy left for things that are more important because come on clothes are really not that important, but they, they matter and we have to deal with them, so let's make it easy.
Erika Tebbens: Yeah. That's very true. Well, thank you so much…
Dacy Gillespie: …thanks for having me
Erika Tebbens: …and I really, really appreciate it Dacy.
Dacy Gillespie: Thanks so much, Erika.
